Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

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pamak
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#31 Post by pamak » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:52 pm

Yes, I think that I have heard before about the willingness of France to use its nuclear weapons, on invading Russians, while they were in Germany.....
:lol:

I always wondered how the Germans felt about that. ;-)

This raises a different question:

What should be the proper EU nuclear response in the extreme scenario of a Russian attack against the EU?

Sure, the Germans do not want to see French nukes exploding on their soil. But is not it the same with the Polish? Is not it the same with any EU country close to Russia? So, what should be the trigger line for releasing tactical nuclear weapons? It seems to me that the Europeans would try to resolve the conflict with conventional weapons and hold their nukes as a deterrence.
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jack t ripper
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#32 Post by jack t ripper » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Considering that a tactical nuke might result in release of strategic nukes on London or Paris...that is true.

Of course, that is why you keep your actual plans secret. ;)
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jack t ripper
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#33 Post by jack t ripper » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:06 pm

Regarding Poland, I can't help myself, I have sympathy for the Poles. There is no doubt the US would be treaty bound to help Poland.

Man, it sounds like a situation Britain faced 75 years ago.
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EUBanana
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#34 Post by EUBanana » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:36 pm

Not sure I'm really seeing a resurgent Russia. Quite the contrary, I see Russia being backed up against the wall. Ukraine was already in Putin's orbit, and then things happened and now it's not, not all of it, anyway. He's fighting for the scraps from the table.

Ukraine is also adjacent to Russia, so if Russian influence even there turns out to be questionable then what we're saying is is that they don't have a whole lot of influence or support outside their own borders anymore. If they lose Ukraine what else do they have to lose? Chunks of Russia itself?

If there is any danger it's precisely because they feel backed up against the wall, as the borders of the West press up against Moscow itself. No satellite states as a buffer for them, it's all been gobbled by the western powers, and is still being gobbled now.
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jack t ripper
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#35 Post by jack t ripper » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:45 pm

Well, except that they are oil and gas exporters and that is generating cash which might allow them to make mischief. And Putin is pretty bloody popular at home
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mdiehl
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#36 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:05 pm

But Europe is not a superpower like the US. Europe is not a single political entity, especially with regard to foreign and defense policy. It doesn't have the means to project power like the US does
Why not? Did Europe suddenly run out of men? Or money?

Of course not. It's because you expect the United States to do it all FOR you.

That is why I think the USA needs to stop interventionism. If the other free nations on this planet weren't a bunch of fucking deadbeat cowardly parasites, and would step up and participate alongside the USA, there'd be reason for the US to stay engaged. But you won't. You plead you do not do that because you claim the inability, but that's just an admission that you all lack the guts, honor, or willpower to see it done. You'd rather the USA do it for you. Then you can bitch about US interventionism while gleaning the benefits from US interventionism without having to share the load.

You continental Europeans suck.
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mdiehl
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#37 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:07 pm

There is no doubt the US would be treaty bound to help Poland.
Scr3w that. F1ck the poles.
"Fuck the king." - Sandor Clegane
"And the story was whatever was the song what it was." - Dire Straits
'Our father, which art in heaven..' "May he fucking stay there." - Al Swearengen, Deadwood

mdiehl
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#38 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:17 pm

There's no ally the US government won't sell out these days.
Bullshit. The US only has two allies -- the UK, Australia, and Japan -- and the US has never turned its back on them. The US has no other allies. Just a bunch of foreign power liars who claim to be allies as long as they're never called upon to commit to anything.
"Fuck the king." - Sandor Clegane
"And the story was whatever was the song what it was." - Dire Straits
'Our father, which art in heaven..' "May he fucking stay there." - Al Swearengen, Deadwood

C_S
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#39 Post by C_S » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:20 pm

The thinking is that once Tucson is being invaded it's too late to do anything.
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jack t ripper
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#40 Post by jack t ripper » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:37 pm

mdiehl wrote:
There is no doubt the US would be treaty bound to help Poland.
Scr3w that. F1ck the poles.
Regardless of your desires there is a treaty. 8-)

Of course, it might take us a while to get there.
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