Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

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Lava
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1191 Post by Lava » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am

wulfir wrote: The French have nukes, and I would expect they will come into play when the Russian spearheads approach the French border.
It would take about 20 years for the Russians to "spearhead" their way to France. Their military has no significant logistical tail to support such an offensive. Given that their GDP is about the same as Texas, I wouldn't worry about that too much.
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1192 Post by mdiehl » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:15 pm

I dunno. I think another good reason for the US to walk away from Europe is to see whether the Europeans are dumb enough to leave themselves that weak.

Anyhow, long before Russia has a go at "drive west young man" (historically, they seem to lack that kind of ambition), Germany will probably get sick of carrying France's water and re-implement the Ardennes Strategy.
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1193 Post by Anthropoid » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Lava wrote:
wulfir wrote: The French have nukes, and I would expect they will come into play when the Russian spearheads approach the French border.
It would take about 20 years for the Russians to "spearhead" their way to France. Their military has no significant logistical tail to support such an offensive. Given that their GDP is about the same as Texas, I wouldn't worry about that too much.
Given they've been bogged down for FIVE YEARS after advancing around 150 km (probably an over-estimate) in Luhansk, you could probably add an order of magnitude to that estimate! :lol:

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1194 Post by wulfir » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:04 pm

Lava wrote:It would take about 20 years for the Russians to "spearhead" their way to France. Their military has no significant logistical tail to support such an offensive. Given that their GDP is about the same as Texas, I wouldn't worry about that too much.
...i.e. 20 years of war before in everything east of France before Putin needs to worry about French nukes then... :D

Thing is, they might not want to go all that way. Maybe Putin or the Putin after Putin figures the Baltic States, a bit of Poland, northern Norway would do fine for starters.
And Russia is the origin of the nuclear deescalation doctrine.

A Russian attack might not be likely but can't fully be ruled out.

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1195 Post by jwilkerson » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:40 pm

.... Putin or the Putin after Putin ....
:lol:

Son of pootin ... son of son of pootin ...
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1196 Post by wulfir » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:59 pm

Crimea 2014

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
- Sun Tzu

:mrgreen:

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1197 Post by wulfir » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:52 pm

NATO members, members in a defensive alliance, must pay more but the one threat - Russia - has no logistic capability and no money, so it isn't really a threat. The logic there? :lol:

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1198 Post by jack t ripper » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:05 pm

Just bring back Vasa and everything will be fine.

use more ballast this time
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1199 Post by wulfir » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:38 pm

Already been done.

HMS Wasa, launched 1901:

Image

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#1200 Post by jack t ripper » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:03 pm

wulfir wrote:Already been done.

HMS Wasa, launched 1901:

Image

Costello: "Wasa that?"

Abbott: "Yes, that's right"

Costello: "No, I'm asking wasa name of the ship?"

Abbott: "That's what I said."

Costello: Uhhh. OK, when it comes time to paint the name on the side, wasa name they put up there?'

Abbott: Of course!
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