Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

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CatLover7
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#11 Post by CatLover7 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:45 am

I'm sorry to see three intelligent Europeans all agreeing that the idea of Putin on a tank in Brussels, or something vaguely similar, is inconceivable. IMO that makes it more likely not less. Putin can go as far as he wants. Not today but in the relatively near future. If Putin played it smart and took small bites Europe could be left with the choice of having to use nukes to stop a conventional attack. Would Europe do that if Putin was simultaneously announcing that he would spare most of Europe and was only taking a small slice of the pie?

I don't believe the US would use nukes unless nukes were first fired at us no matter what the circumstances. But we have the advantage of two oceans making direct military invasion nearly impossible any time in the near future. I highly doubt we'd fire nukes first just to defend any allies. Seriously, if you guys are depending on us you truly are screwed.

But I do thank you three for not sorta wishing for my death and declaring that the world would be a better place without me. We may have some common ground after all. ;)
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LaPalice
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#12 Post by LaPalice » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:29 am

The Russians would not have the logistics to reach Brussels. Without the Lend-lease, they would not have reached Berlin certainly.

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#13 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:28 am

This is not a uniquely European problem though.
It's mostly a European problem. The UK and US won two conventional wars in short order in the early 2000s. Of course, one would not call either Iq or Ag "peers" in the military sense. Still, no European state would have won under the same circumstances.

You're correct. The EU has the potential to kick Russia's ass any time that it wishes to do so, IF Europe decides to develop real military capability and the WILL to do the deed. I think you'd never (collectively) develop the latter. France would undermine any effort. France would love to see Germany get stuck in assisting Poland or the Baltic States. France would then do everything to undermine the effort politically and in the press. And when promises came to action you'd find the French perpetually late, inadequate, and unmotivated.

Most of the original post suggests the author is an agitation propagandist. Anyone who claims Saudi Arabia and Egypt are "US Allies" is three aces short of a full deck. Saudi Arabia is the biggest sponsor of terrorists world wide, and both of those nations supported the terrorists and provided the personnel in the 9-11 attacks.
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#14 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:33 am

Which choices? Post-9/11 the US decided it would intervene in the Afghanistan and the Middle East. Especially in the post-9/11 world there have been few occasions in which the US had to intervene on the behalf of European countries. On the contrary, it has been European countries who have been militarily engaged in support of our ally, the United States. It is European soldiers who have died in support of US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not the other way around.
The only European country to be militarily engaged as an ally of the United States is the UK. The fact that you still refer to these as "American Wars" is symptomatic of the usual continental European provincialism and moral cowardice.

WHEN not if Europe finds itself either threatened by Islamists or Russia it will be Europe's fault. I certainly hope that when that day comes to pass, America will resolve to remain unembroiled in any "European Wars." If Russia eats your lunch, it will be the result of continental European fecklessness. If the USA decides not to aid you this time around, after the last 100 years of US support, it will be the response that you have EARNED from the USA.
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#15 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:38 am

but it is still a hell of a lot better than most of the rest of the world
No, really, it's not. The only EU power that acts as a US ally ever is the UK. The rest of Europe may have common interests with the USA, but the rest of Europe will always abandon any effort to support those interests on the premise that the USA will do the job on Europe's behalf.

That era is coming to an end, finally.
"Fuck the king." - Sandor Clegane
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#16 Post by jack t ripper » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:05 am

I was trying to find out who was dropping supplies on Mt. Sinjar and who was supporting the Peshmerga against ISIS?

Does anyone know?

ISIS is real. There are perhaps 100 ISIS fighters with American passports, probably 5x that many with European pssports.

On the published Kaliphate Kook map al Andalus (Andalucia) is red. So is SE Europe. Paris has its own District 9 and London is not far behind. Jews are leaving France because they fear for their lives. Isn't anyone a little bit worried?
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#17 Post by mdiehl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:18 am

Airstrikes: USN and Iraqi Air Force using US supplied munitions.
Mt. Sinjar airdrops: USAF, RAF, and Iraqi Army. using US and UK supplied food and water.
Continental European assistance against ISIS to date: None.
Continental European support of minority refugees fleeing ISIS to date: None.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -dead.html
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#18 Post by chijohnaok » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:25 am

jack t ripper wrote:I was trying to find out who was dropping supplies on Mt. Sinjar and who was supporting the Peshmerga against ISIS?

Does anyone know?

ISIS is real. There are perhaps 100 ISIS fighters with American passports, probably 5x that many with European pssports.

On the published Kaliphate Kook map al Andalus (Andalucia) is red. So is SE Europe. Paris has its own District 9 and London is not far behind. Jews are leaving France because they fear for their lives. Isn't anyone a little bit worried?
There are more pressing concerns Ripper:
French consumers need to be protected from the danger of free delivery when purchasing books.
The MEPs in Brussels need to figure out new ways to push forward centralization without the pesky proles wanting a referendum.
Refillable olive oil jugs and dipping bowls need to be banned.
European Union Wants To Ban High Heels, Jewelry For Hairdressers
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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#19 Post by LaPalice » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:32 am

jack t ripper wrote:I was trying to find out who was dropping supplies on Mt. Sinjar and who was supporting the Peshmerga against ISIS?
The French are ready to do it.
BAGHDAD (AP) — France's foreign minister said during a visit to Iraq on Sunday that Paris will provide "several tons" of aid to hundreds of thousands of internally displaced people and called upon leaders in Baghdad to unite against Sunni militants who have seized large parts of the country.

.../...

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Re: Will Europe Ever Defend Itself?

#20 Post by jack t ripper » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:34 am

:lol:
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