Shooting and Firearms

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Anthropoid
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1781 Post by Anthropoid » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:15 am

The majority decision today necessarily leads to the conclusion that individuals who elect to carry firearms forego other constitutional rights, like the Fourth Amendment right to have law enforcement officers “knock-and-announce” before forcibly entering homes. . . . Likewise, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that individuals who choose to carry firearms necessarily face greater restriction on their concurrent exercise of other constitutional rights, like those protected by the First Amendment.
The judge that espoused this needs to be schooled in American values.

That said, it is my understanding that (at least in Georgia) a concealed carry permit means that one must maintain concealment unless and until one intends to used the device in self-defense, else to remove it for some practical reason (e.g., to enter a gun-restricted area like a court house). If the people were in a vehicle then they were likely well within their rights to be examining the firearm. States differ on it, but some states allow open carry in all public places (except restricted locations of course).

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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1782 Post by jwilkerson » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 pm

2019-06-23
1400-1500
60F
10 MPH WSW

Goal: Wind Practice


Environment: Party cloud, breeze from the West. Ground soppying wet after Noah Rain all night.

Equipment: 7.62(20) S, NF 4-16x T3, M118LR, RRS

Image

Activity: Rolled out to setup area in trees on West side of hill 1309. Could only see top boards of targets at 475yds and 620yds ...
So moved halfway up the hill and then could see top half of all steel targets visible from this position

Est. cross wind at 6 MPH. Held 3 up and 6 MPH left. First rd hit on 500yd target. Aimed at face, heard hit, could not see splotches on target. Switched to 640yd target.

Cattle were crossing the LOS and had to wait. Grandma took her time. Wind seemed higher, held 4.8 up and held for 8 MPH. Heard hit. Aimed for face heard hit.

Rolled to targets.

500yd target
Image
The face shot was a miss.

640yd target
Image
Both were hits, both on right edge.

Results/Summary:

Score was 3+0+3+6 = 11/15 = 0.
Overall the wind practice score, since record keeping began back in April for this scoring method ...

120/148 = 0.81 for day

11.5/15 = .77 for night

I did not have the kestrel, so I was using guestimatation. I seemed to consistently under estimate by 2-3 MPH.

Hits on the edge of the target might seem like barely hits and they are. But from a scoring perspective, there are only
two types of hits. Hits and misses. These are IPSC (2/3) a 6x6 face on top of a 12x18 body.

The goal is first rd hits.
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1783 Post by jwilkerson » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:04 pm

Heading to the dark side ... these are my first 60 "joe loaded" rounds ...

Image

175gr with 43.5 gr of varget

mv with 7.62(20) bolt gun was 2544 which is a bit lower than the 2561 FGMM 175gr 7.62 load I normally shoot. But the SD was 13 versus the FGMM of 18.5. But for your first load, you want to be low ... then work your way up ... so will try 44gr next.
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1784 Post by nelmsm » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:25 am

Looking for a recommendation here. Wife is a case worker for Texas Child Protective Service and let's just say she deals with people who aren't in the upper crust of society, really not even in the lower crust for that matter. I'd feel better if she was carrying for her own protection. Any ideas on what would be a good pistol for her to carry. Looking for something she can carry in her purse so a Barrett .50 is out. I'm thinking a hammerless .38 but open to other ideas. She has shot before so she can handle about anything.
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1785 Post by nero » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:10 am

nelmsm wrote:Looking for a recommendation here. Wife is a case worker for Texas Child Protective Service and let's just say she deals with people who aren't in the upper crust of society, really not even in the lower crust for that matter. I'd feel better if she was carrying for her own protection. Any ideas on what would be a good pistol for her to carry. Looking for something she can carry in her purse so a Barrett .50 is out. I'm thinking a hammerless .38 but open to other ideas. She has shot before so she can handle about anything.
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1786 Post by Anthropoid » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:22 am

nelmsm wrote:Looking for a recommendation here. Wife is a case worker for Texas Child Protective Service and let's just say she deals with people who aren't in the upper crust of society, really not even in the lower crust for that matter. I'd feel better if she was carrying for her own protection. Any ideas on what would be a good pistol for her to carry. Looking for something she can carry in her purse so a Barrett .50 is out. I'm thinking a hammerless .38 but open to other ideas. She has shot before so she can handle about anything.
That .380 thing the Grandpa in Florida used to shue off the chittlins in the Internet cafe?

The Karrs are also highly touted by their fans.

Me personally, I'd go for a James Bond gun, the name of which is presently eluding me . . . ah Walther!

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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1787 Post by Gump » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:35 am

A .38 revolver is big and heavy. Carrying a gun is a lot of discomfort for most people. They are noticeably there.. even in a purse. Especially for someone who probably doesn't really want to carry one and will find excuses not to.... For these people.. and me quite often that means the lightest smallest gun I can find.... I have other small pistols but for an inexpensive, light, plastic gun that goes bang every time you can't miss with a Keltec P-32.

Almost all plastic and coated so it's super light and rust resistant... proven reliability... .32 so it stays on target better and makes holes where you point it.... investigate one of those would be my advice.

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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1788 Post by nelmsm » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:47 am

Well I'm leaning towards the bigger caliber because about 95% of the asshats she deals with are methheads. She is a sturdy gal and handling a .38 won't be a problem for her. And she wants it as well, it isn't just my wanting it for her. Just me pushing for her to get it now.
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1789 Post by jwilkerson » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:06 pm

I don't carry a purse ... or a concealed pistol ... but if I was gonna carry a concealed pistol (and all non-prohibited persons in KS are allowed) ... I think I would want it on ME, not in a container not well attached to ME. That is "retention is a factor to consider" !!!
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Re: Shooting and Firearms

#1790 Post by chijohnaok » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:16 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew ... 4aeb952423
1,504,122 viewsSep 6, 2019, 03:50pm

Exclusive: Feds Demand Apple And Google Hand Over Names Of 10,000+ Users Of A Gun Scope App

Thomas Brewster
Thomas Brewster Forbes Staff
Cybersecurity
I cover crime, privacy and security in digital and physical forms.

Own a rifle? Got a scope to go with it? The U.S. government might soon know who you are, where you live and how to reach you.

That’s because the government wants Apple and Google to hand over names, phone numbers and other identifying data of at least 10,000 users of a single gun scope app, Forbes has discovered. It’s an unprecedented move: Never before has a case been disclosed in which American investigators demanded personal data of users of a single app from Apple and Google. And never has an order been made public where the feds have asked the Silicon Valley giants for info on so many thousands of people in one go.

According to an application for a court order filed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) on September 5, investigators want information on users of Obsidian 4, a tool used to control rifle scopes made by night-vision specialist American Technologies Network Corp. The app allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device. According to the Google Play page for Obsidian 4, it has more than 10,000 downloads. Apple doesn’t provide download numbers, so it’s unclear how many iPhone owners could be swept up in this latest government data grab.

If the court approves the demand, and Apple and Google decide to hand over the information, it could include data on thousands of people who have nothing to do with the crimes being investigated, privacy activists warned. Edin Omanovic, lead on Privacy International's State Surveillance program, said it would set a dangerous precedent and scoop up “huge amounts of innocent people’s personal data.”

“Such orders need to be based on suspicion and be particularized—this is neither,” Omanovic added.

Neither Apple nor Google had responded to a request for comment at the time of publication. ATN, the scope maker, also hadn’t responded.

Today In: Innovation
Why the data grab?

The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) department is seeking information as part of a broad investigation into possible breaches of weapons export regulations. It’s looking into illegal exports of ATN’s scope, though the company itself isn’t under investigation, according to the order. As part of that, investigators are looking for a quick way to find out where the app is in use, as that will likely indicate where the hardware has been shipped. ICE has repeatedly intercepted illegal shipments of the scope, which is controlled under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), according to the government court filing. They included shipments to Canada, the Netherlands and Hong Kong where the necessary licenses hadn’t been obtained.

“This pattern of unlawful, attempted exports of this rifle scope in combination with the manner in which the ATN Obsidian 4 application is paired with this scope manufactured by Company A supports the conclusion that the information requested herein will assist the government in identifying networks engaged in the unlawful export of this rifle scope through identifying end users located in countries to which export of this item is restricted,” the government order reads. (The order was supposed to have been sealed, but Forbes obtained it before the document was hidden from public view.) There's no clear stipulation on the government's side to limit this to countries outside of America, though that limitation could be put in place.

It’s unclear just whom ICE is investigating. No public charges have been filed related to the company or resellers of its weapons tools. Reports online have claimed ATN scopes were being used by the Taliban.

If the court signs off on the order, Apple and Google will be told to hand over not just the names of anyone who downloaded the scope app from August 1, 2017 to the current date, but their telephone numbers and IP addresses too, which could be used to determine the location of the user. The government also wants to know when users were operating the app.

Innocents ensnared

The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. Tor Ekeland, a privacy-focused lawyer, said it amounted to a “fishing expedition.” (The DOJ hadn’t responded to a request for comment at the time of publication.)

“The danger is the government will go on this fishing expedition, and they’ll see information unrelated to what they weren’t looking for and go after someone for something else,” Ekeland said. He said there’s a long history of that kind of behavior from the U.S. government. And he warned that the government could apply this demand to other types of app, such as dating or health apps.

“There’s a more profound issue here with the government able to vacuum up a vast amount of data on people they have no reason to suspect have committed any crime. They don’t have any probable cause to investigate, but they’re getting access to data on them,” Ekeland added.

Even those who’ve worked in government surveillance were stunned by the order. “The idea that this data will only be used for pursuing ITAR violations is almost laughable,” warned Jake Williams, a former NSA analyst and now a cybersecurity consultant at Rendition Infosec.

“Google and Apple should definitely fight these requests as they represent a very slippery slope. This type of bulk data grab is seriously concerning for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the download of an application does not automatically imply the ‘intended use’ of the application. For instance, researchers often bulk download applications looking for interesting vulnerabilities.”

He said that if the request was granted it may also have a “serious chilling effect on how people use the Google and Android app stores.” He added, “The idea that Google could be compelled to turn over, in secret, all of my identifiers and session data in its possession because I downloaded an application for research is such a broad overreach it's ridiculous.”

Though the order is unprecedented in America, non-U.S. governments have tried a similar tactic before on a grander scale. As Forbes reported, an unnamed government had asked Apple for data on 58 million users of a single app as they tried to trace a terrorist cell. Apple declined to provide the data.

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