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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:51 am 
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Sergeant Major

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm
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Location: Eskridge, KS
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My current per round ammo cost for primary rounds I am shooting:

.300WM - FGMM 190gr SMK $1.34

5.56 - Black Hills 77gr TMK $1.15

5.56 - IMI 77gr SMK $0.52

7.62 - FGMM 175gr SMK $0.99

.22LR - Eley 40gr HP subsonic $0.13

... Despite the fact that this mix of ammo is the highest quality mix of ammo I have ever been shooting ... this is also the lowest cost mix of ammo I've ever been shooting ... at least since I restarted shooting in Dec 2012 after moving out here to the ranch. And the trumpf phenomena is certainly to blame for the prices ... I am to blame for continuing to trying to find the highest quality factory rounds I can find to shoot.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:06 pm 
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Sergeant Major

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2018-10-06
2100-2200
40F
5 MPH NNE

Goal: Handwarmers inside 100yds with .22lr, 7.62 and utc

Environment: Overcast, light rain. It has been either raining hard or lightly for 2 days, so lots of water pools a mud.

Equipment: .22lr(16) with Athlon 6-24x, eley 40gr hp subsonic, 7.62(22) with NF 7-35x T3m FGMM 175gr. UTCx, RRS

Image

Activity:

Setup 4 handwarmers on 4 NRA 50yd targets.

.22lr(16) at 70yds on RRS standing, which is about the double zero (zeroed at 25yds). The ADM mount is over 1.5 and the UTCx is 1.31 so expecting to hit low.

First 5rd group (left side) ... aimed dead on at hand warmers (cranked to 20x) was low.

Second 5rd group (ride side) ... held up one mil ... was high.

Image
==
Went and got 2032 to I could use the illumination and see the reticle.

3rd 5rd group (left side), held up 0.5 mil centered for elevation. Bad aiming (shadow on right side) pushed me right.

4th 10rd group (right side), help up 0.5 mil and aimed better. 10rds grouped around center of handwarmer.

Image

==
7.62(22) at 100yds ... 5rds at the same 4 targets, left two right. All rounds low. The center of the heat, is not always the center of the handwarmer.

Image

Image

==

Results/Summary: Need to check the .22lr at 70yds in the day, before deciding for sure that 0.5 mil is the offset for the .22LR.

==
2018-10-07
1300-1500
50F
5 MPH NNE

Goal: 500yds and 750yds with RRS and 7.62(22)

Environment: Overcast, raining, muddy.

Equipment: 7.62(22) NF 7-35x T3, FGMM 175grm RRS, Buggy.

Activity: Painted targets, then rolled to 700+ area and tried to guess about where 750yds was. Setup and ranged got 697m then 685 meters.

Image
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Held 6.3 up (per shooter) and 2 mph.

Image

summary/results:
10/10 hits, though 2 on oppositie sides ... so 1.6 MOA group. Goal is 1.5 standing off tripod by end of year.

==


Rolled to 500yds FP and setup

First three shots were low and left I was holding 3.0 up and 2 mph. Retightened suppressor and held 3.1, that worked. I was aiming for the "face" (the 6x6 part of the target on top). You can see the three "misses" to the left of the bull. At least they were my "sighters". Of the remaining 9 rds, one was low (above the bull) and the others hit the face. And one missed right and one missed left.
Image

On second target got 6 hits on the face and one missed low and one missed right.

Image

summary/results: SHooting at the 6 inch face from 500yds is 1.2 MOA.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Sergeant Major

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Sounds like the Army is going for its own new 6.8 cartridge ... we don't know much about ... I guess right now we can call it "the magic bullet" :D

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/10/08/army-chief-offers-new-details-68mm-next-gen-squad-weapons.html?ESRC=army_181009.nl

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:04 am 
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jwilkerson wrote:
Sounds like the Army is going for its own new 6.8 cartridge ... we don't know much about ... I guess right now we can call it "the magic bullet" :D

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/10/08/army-chief-offers-new-details-68mm-next-gen-squad-weapons.html?ESRC=army_181009.nl


Is it 6.8mm SPC?

Such as ->
https://www.bulkammo.com/rifle/6.8-remington-spc-ammo

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:37 am 
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From what I'm seeing, it may be a different 6.8 round.

The SPC's been developed quite a bit since the Army first tried it.

Mine groups pretty good at 200 yds.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:55 am 
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Sergeant Major

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Aye, it sounds like it is 6.8 "Army" :)

Further, the article states it has a high muzzle velocity. So does that mean it runs in an upper on a small frame (AR-15) or large frame (AR-10) chassis ?

6.5 Creedmore shoots some of the same bullets as 6.5 Grendel, but at a higher muzzle velocity and hence 6.5C uses large frame while 6.5G uses small frame.

If the new round requires large frame, it will make it VERY expensive to give to all infantry as all infantry would require new AR-10 lowers. If the new round runs on AR-15 lower it will have a LOT of recoil and be rough on the parts. So more training for the infantryman to be able to hit accurately with it and more downtime and/or maintenance to keep it functional.

I do not assume the Army has completely thought through as these aspects yet.

Further, of course, the obvious issue is logistics. Right now, both the 7.62xNATO and the 5.56xNATO rounds are ubiquitous. If the US Army inserts a new round into the mix, that will make resupply more complex and will mean there will be more situations in which the 6.8xArmy shooters are winchester.

Also, if more distance is one of the objectives, that can be had with the 5.56xNATO round with better optics and more training. Don't need a new cartridge, just need optics with longer distance capability and more training for long distance. And those items will be needed regardless of a new round.

So. I'm sure there are plusses of the new round, but there are also minuses and not sure the Army folks driving the new program have thought thru all the negatives yet. Time will tell. They are saying no public demonstration for another year anyway.

==
For civilians, if the new round really is adopted and it sticks for a few years so that it really becomes clearly adopted, we will see it on the shelves in large quantities. Someone might try to stop us from getting it, but we can just copy it and hecque even make it better. But it could change things, even for the "conservative" cartridge adopters such as myself.

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(will the rainbow shack return to being the White House?)


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:02 am 
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There's also the .224 Valkyrie. Basically the 6.8 necked down to .22. It'll push a 100 gr bullet to 1000 yds.

I'm slowly working on one of those.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Sergeant Major

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Location: Eskridge, KS
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2018-10-11
2000-2200
40F
0 MPH W

Goals: Overwatch central pond

Environment: Dead calm, no wind, very quiet, hardly any bug noises. So, no sound cover, have to move very slowly, to avoid noise. Overcast, no moon.

Equipment: 7.62(22), NF 7-35x T3, UTCx, water, 2x5rd Mags, FGMM 175gr, Radius, RRS, phone (cam and shooter).

Activity:
I walked to the area. I setup on the East side of signal hill, using the one tree up there as my "camo" ... The pond was between 275 and 310yds away, nearest and farthest point and that was between 1.1 and 1.5 mils up. There was no wind.

Never saw any critters around the pond. But took pics of all the critters I could see.

To the West, cattle bedded down at around 334yds.

Image
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==
One deer to the East bedded down 423 yds.

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==

Another deer to the East bedded down 185yds.

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==
Cattle on ridge to the NE at 2929yds.
You can also see a large TV antenna tower on top of that ridge. The tower itself is about 4 miles away. I was unable to range around the base of the tower.

Image
Image

==
Cattle on ridge to the NW at 2627yds.


Image
Image

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(will the rainbow shack return to being the White House?)


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Reading about 70 pages back in this thread jwilkerson/OE are talking about parachuting. You guys are bad asses.

I'm sticking w/ my prediction that most Americans could bag a coke can at 100 yrds 10 times out of 10 no problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting and Firearms
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:40 am 
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It would be interesting to do some experiments on thermal evasion materials with all that gear.... Have you ever thought about making a suit ?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PLo5iCEcX4

I understand the basic concept of being the guy who shoots first... but with all that cheap thermal tech on the market now, a serious player should feel pretty naked walking around in short sleeves at night... Not to mention the whole Fort Apache federale scenario.....

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