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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Having skimmed through the flurry of posts you conspirators and counter-conspirators have contrived so rapidly of late, I'd like to offer an alternative explanation to all the world's woes and not simply those of the last 25 or 50 years, but those of the last 25,000 to 50,000,000 years . . .

Human beings are a mixed lot. Many are generous and relatively easily contented; but many are also self-serving, wicked, sociopathic, and/or greedy cheats who offer no real value to the groups they belong to. Who knows what proportions these two types of people comprise in the whole of humanity, but both are non-trivial proportions that is certain. Mix, stir, add in 10,000+ years of imaginary knowledge, and a few thousand years of empirically founded knowledge and you have Planet of the Apes.

The only way there is ever any progress is when a group of reasonable people agree on the preceding points, and also agree to institute systems which serve to exert checks and balances and accountability on all members of society. Every other "solution" has produced only temporary stability and homeostasis.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:31 pm 
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Temporary stability and homeostasis are mutually incompatible so the comment doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I misunderstood. IMO, conflict has driven the primate psyche, and there's no reasonable expectation that it will change. Some form of adaptive radiation away from earth is inevitable unless we really do manage to wipe out all of humanity --- which even WITH a massive global TN war is probably not going to happen.

Honestly these days however I do not worry too much about it. If the nukes fly let em fly/ If the dead walk let em walk. I'll make sure my family gets through it.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
{Snip}
Whose going to select that group of 'reasonable people'?

Am repping you because I agree fully with your 'alternative explanation', but your corrective has been tried, one experiment cost 80 million human lives.

IMHO there is no answer, look how bad the history of the Catholic Church is, Jesus left it with a perfect game plan and then humans started applying the plan. :oops: :cry:

The problem with the human race is the humans.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:58 pm 
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abradley wrote:
IMHO there is no answer, look how bad the history of the Catholic Church is, Jesus left it with a perfect game plan and then humans started applying the plan. :oops: :cry:

The problem with the human race is the humans.

I know as someone who is also a baptised Catholic I have had a pop at you in the past about religion, but that is absolutely spot on.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:41 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
jack t ripper wrote:
What could a "pro-business" party and the Greens POSSIBLY have in common? Open borders perhaps? Otherwise, there can't be much.


Surely agreeing with the AfD to cut migration (very popular) and aside from that CDU policies would be the way to go, but the European establishment doesn't give a flying fuck about what the plebs want on this issue.


It is the duty of Europarliament to enact such policies that lead to more goodthink and reduction in crimethink.

It is their sacred duty and not to be taken lightly in this time of misprint and malquote.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:53 pm 
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abradley wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
{Snip}
Whose going to select that group of 'reasonable people'?

Am repping you because I agree fully with your 'alternative explanation', but your corrective has been tried, one experiment cost 80 million human lives.

IMHO there is no answer, look how bad the history of the Catholic Church is, Jesus left it with a perfect game plan and then humans started applying the plan. :oops: :cry:

The problem with the human race is the humans.


The founding fathers of the U.S. seem to have been fairly reasonable. But much like the history of Christianity, they left a perfect game plan which humans have been trying to screw up :P

The dudes who came up with the Treaty of Westphalia also seem to have been fairly reasonable, but that was only because they felt they had no more choice; Europe was ravaged by their personal greed and pettiness.

There is a not-so-famous social theory by E.E. Evans-Pritchard called "Segmentary Opposition." Simple theory: if two brothers (we'll call them the Karamazovs! :P ) both want the same girl, they'll fight over her. But if only one of them wants her, and the neighbor is honing in, then they will team up against the neighbor. If an adjoining neighborhood (we'll call it the Quixote neighborhood) is honing in on the Karamozov's neighborhood, then those two brothers and the other residents of the Karamozov neighborhood will team up to compete against the Quixote neighborhood. If these two neighborhoods form a ward of the community, then if an opposing ward is threatening, all the residents of the ward comprising the Karamozov neighborhood and the Quixote neighborhood will team up . . . and so on, and so on, all the way up to International Treaties.

This model "explains" WWI, and indeed much of human history. The other neat thing is, the model is perfectly congruent with evolutionary psychology and is as applicable to any social mammal as it is to humans (in general, the specifics of how segments fuse and form obviously may differ both between species and between social groups).

I think it is a fairly superficial model, E-P didn't have a sound model of human nature nor of psychobiology or developmental psychology, but as far as explaining human behavior I've never encountered one that is any less sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:01 pm 
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I would say mohammed got the jump on the hyphenated egghead guy with his own "segmentary opposition" hypothesis. It's in the quran <makes loud flatulence sound>

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:09 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
I would say mohammed got the jump on the hyphenated egghead guy with his own "segmentary opposition" hypothesis. It's in the quran <makes loud flatulence sound>


Yup.

For whatever reason "Liberté, fraternité, égalité" just don't seem to have quite the same potency(?) as "Death to the Kuffar! Islam supreme!"

Or perhaps the West is just a sleeping giant, who only needs to be roused . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
[Or perhaps the West is just a sleeping giant, who only needs to be roused . . .



We did have a brief spasm of segmentary opposition after 9-11...but it only lasted about a week. Even Article 5 of the NATO treaty was not good enough.

Now we are mostly down to the Anglophone countries...which is a natural sub-segment of the "West". I shudder to think what it would take to completely unite the "kuffir" as the simultaneous murder of 3000+ busboys and stockbrokers and secretaries on live TV was not enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Angela Merkel celebrates after German election win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:31 am 
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germ ... SKBN1DJ0I3

Quote:
NOVEMBER 19, 2017 / 8:34 AM / UPDATED 16 MINUTES AGO

Merkel fourth term in doubt as German coalition talks fail

Joseph Nasr, Andreas Rinke
6 MIN READ

BERLIN (Reuters) - Efforts to form a three-way coalition government have failed, Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Monday, pitching Germany into its worse political crisis for decades, raising the prospect of new elections and casting doubt over her future.

The pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) withdrew from talks after more than four weeks of fruitless negotiations with Merkel’s conservative bloc and the environmentalist Greens, saying there was not enough common ground.

With German leadership seen as crucial for a European Union grappling with governance reform and Britain’s impending exit, FDP leader Christian Lindner’s announcement that he was pulling out spooked investors and sent the euro falling.

A tired-looking Merkel said she would stay on as acting chancellor and consult President Frank-Walter Steinmeier on how to move forward. A deal had been within reach, she said.

With the Social Democrats (SPD) sticking on Monday to their pledge after losses in a September election not to go back into a Merkel-led “grand coalition” of center-left and center-right, the most likely option looked to be new elections.

Steinmeier, who in the ordinary course of events is meant to play a non-partisan role above the cut-and-thrust of party politics, was due to give a statement at 1330 GMT.

”It is a day of deep reflection on how to go forward in Germany,“ Merkel told reporters. ”As chancellor, I will do everything to ensure that this country is well managed in the difficult weeks to come.

The failure of coalition talks is unprecedented in Germany’s post-war history, and was likened by newsmagazine Der Spiegel to the shock election of U.S. President Donald Trump or Britain’s referendum vote to leave the EU - moments when countries cast aside reputations for stability built up over decades.

The collapse came as a surprise since the main sticking points - immigration and climate change policy - were not seen as FDP signature issues.

Green politician Michael Kellner accused Lindner of “bad theatrics”, one of many who suggested the liberal, pro-business party had never been serious about negotiating.

“It is better not to rule than to rule the wrong way. Goodbye!” Lindner said, announcing his withdrawal in the small hours, blaming the breakdown on a lack of progress on education and tax policy - areas that had been seen as less contentious.

“Christian ‘Better no deal than a bad deal’ Lindner - Germany’s Boris Johnson,” wrote political commentator Max Steinbeis on Facebook, comparing Lindner to the British foreign minister and Brexit campaigner who is widely seen by Germany’s political class as a dangerous and heedless loose cannon.

UNAPPEALING OPTIONS

Germany now faces unappealing options not experienced in Germany’s post-World War Two era: Merkel forms a minority government, or the president calls a new election if no government is formed.

The main parties fear that another election so soon would let the far-right, anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party add to the 13 percent of votes it secured in September, when it entered parliament for the first time. Polls suggest repeat elections would return a similarly fragmented parliament.

The SPD, which came second in the Sept. 24 election, said on Monday it had no wish to rejoin Merkel in a grand coalition and that voters should be given a say.

“We are not afraid of repeat elections. In such a situation, the ... voters must reassess what is going on,” SPD leader Martin Schulz told a news conference. He added that a minority government was not a practical option in Germany.

Schulz also said he would meet Steinmeier and that Merkel had yet to contact him.

Some still believe that the SPD could change its mind, perhaps under pressure from Steinmeier, himself a former SPD foreign minister who served under Merkel.

Others felt the FDP could yet be prevailed upon to return to the negotiating table. The price for either party to change its mind could be the departure of Merkel, who for 12 years has been a symbol of German stability, leading Europe through the euro zone crisis.

Greens leader Kathrin Goering-Eckardt said she expected fresh elections.

Merkel was weakened by the September election as voters angry with her decision in 2015 to open the borders to more than a million asylum seekers punished her conservatives by voting for the AfD.



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