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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:18 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Oh for Pete's Sake. Just let the gay rods get married in peace and get on with your lives.


I'm for live and let live.

If they want to get married that is there business.

But it does not give them the right to infringe on others whose beliefs differ from theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:21 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
Oh for Pete's Sake. Just let the gay rods get married in peace and get on with your lives.


I'm for live and let live.

If they want to get married that is there business.

But it does not give them the right to infringe on others whose beliefs differ from theirs.


True. And the first one's who make a drama of being denied services for religious reasons I stand right behind the deniers.

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:39 am 
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Sally Kohn: "Will anti-gay Christians be politically and socially ostracized? I sure hope so".

If that is her contention, then why weren't they ostracizing Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton 5 years ago for their stance against gay marriage?

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:46 pm 
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http://www.philly.com/philly/education/ ... chool.html

Quote:
Firing of teacher in same-sex marriage roils Catholic school

CHRIS BRENNAN, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
POSTED: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 1:08 AM


The e-mail left many parents at the private Catholic school upset and confused. The well-respected director of religious education had just been fired.

Nell Stetser, principal of Waldron Mercy Academy, an elementary school in Merion, sent the e-mail Friday to say that Margie Winters was out of a job after eight years.

The reasons were confidential, Stetser wrote.

But the "context" she went on to offer included clues to what the school saw as a problem: Winters is in a same-sex marriage.

Stetser praised Winters for her "amazing contributions" to the school.

"In the Mercy spirit, many of us accept life choices that contradict current Church teachings," she wrote, "but to continue as a Catholic school, Waldron Mercy must comply with those teachings."

Winters married her wife in Boston in 2007, seven years before a federal judge struck down as unconstitutional Pennsylvania's 18-year-old law banning gay marriage.

The Supreme Court on June 26, in a 5-4 ruling, said same-sex marriage is a constitutional right.

Winters said she and her wife "kept a really low profile" about their relationship at the school.

"I actually had a conversation with the principal a few weeks after I was hired to say, how should I handle this," said Winters, adding that she was advised that she could be open about her life with the faculty but to avoid discussing it with students' parents.

"So that's what I've done," she said. "I've never been open. And that's been hard."

Still, parents of at least two students discovered that Winters was in a same-sex marriage. Winters said one complained to the school and the other contacted the Archdiocese of Philadelphia.

Winters refused a request to resign and was fired in a June 22 letter from the school.

Winters said she thought the school's connection to the archdiocese played a role in that decision. The school, she said, worried that its "Catholic identity would be in jeopardy."

Stetser said in a statement that she could not discuss personnel matters.

"The primary consideration that guided my decision-making process was to sustain the Catholic identity of Waldron Mercy Academy," Stetser said.

Ken Gavin, director of communications for the archdiocese, said it played no role in Winters' firing. "There has been no discussion whatsoever about revoking the ability of the school to identify itself as Catholic," Gavin said.

Winters' firing comes 11 weeks before Pope Francis visits Philadelphia for the World Meeting of Families, a Catholic gathering expected to draw 1.5 million people.

The weeklong event is to include a discussion of sexual orientation. The recent Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage is also expected to be discussed.

Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, in a weekly column released Monday, called that ruling an "abuse of judicial power" with huge implications.

"And the last thing we need from religious - including Catholic - leaders in the face of this profoundly flawed Supreme Court decision is weakness or ambiguity," Chaput wrote.

Lower Merion Township has an antidiscrimination ordinance that protects employees for several reasons, including sexual orientation. Religious institutions are exempt unless they are "supported in whole or in part by government appropriations."

State Sen. Daylin Leach, a Democrat who represents the school's area, noted that Waldron Mercy lists on its website that it has received more than $270,000 in the last two years from the state's Opportunity Scholarship Tax Credit program.

Waldron's website also said 70 students have attended since 2005 under a similar state program, the Educational Improvement Tax Credit.

"So they've received a good bit of money from the State of Pennsylvania," said Leach, a lawyer. He said that state money might override the religious exemption for the township ordinance.

Stetser wrote in her e-mail that she wanted the controversy to lead to conversation and then clarity.

"My hope is the pain we experience today adds to the urgency of engaging in an open and honest discussion about this and other divisive issues at the intersection of our society and our Church," she wrote.

The conversation is certainly coming, according to some Waldron parents.

Nancy Houston and her husband plan to host a parents' meeting Wednesday evening.

"It was a surprise, coming from Waldron," Houston said. "That's not who we are. Right now, there's a lot of questions."

The firing, she added, is "not something we're going to accept quietly."

Winters "makes kids love religion," Houston said. "She's a perfect example of living a religious life."

Winters said she welcomes the attention.

"People of faith need to know what is happening in the name of their church," she said.



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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:34 pm 
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/ ... 8096.html#

Quote:
Free to Shut Up

The collision of religious liberty and gay rights in Oregon

Mark Hemingway

July 20, 2015, Vol. 20, No. 42

"They have good days and bad days, but I will tell you they are resolute,” attorney Herb Grey says of his clients, Aaron and Melissa Klein, two bakers from Portland who are facing a $135,000 fine from the state of Oregon for refusing to bake a cake for a lesbian commitment ceremony in January 2013. “They know that today it’s them, but that there’s nothing they can do to escape from it, and they’re willing to stand up, knowing what the potential implications are for other people.”

It’s safe to say that July 2 was not one of the Kleins’ better days. Brad Avakian, a commissioner with the state Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI), issued a ruling that upheld the $135,000 fine for violating state public accommodation laws suggested by an administrative judge in April. The couple were told to pay the fine by July 13 or the state would place a lien on their home. Not only that, but Avakian added an astonishing wrinkle. He issued a gag order that effectively prevents the couple from saying much of anything about the case: “The Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor and Industries hereby orders Respondents Aaron and Melissa Klein to cease and desist from publishing, circulating, issuing or displaying, or causing to be published .  .  . any communication to the effect that any of the accommodations .  .  . will be refused, withheld from or denied to, or that any discrimination will be made against, any person on account of their sexual orientation.”

The state insists that this is not a gag order, that it narrowly restricts what the Kleins may say about who they will serve. (Their bakery, Sweetcakes By Melissa, was shuttered in 2013 thanks to negative publicity surrounding the case, though the couple are trying to keep their business alive online.) But according to Grey, who is one of three lawyers working with the Christian legal group Alliance Defending Freedom to represent the Kleins, the couple have never stated an intention to discriminate, only stated why they took the stand they did in the instance that got them into trouble. Besides, the Kleins have no problem serving gay customers. They had previously served the lesbian woman who filed the complaint against them. They simply decline to make cakes for same-sex weddings, since to do so, in their view, would betray their Christian conscience.

This didn’t stop Avakian, in the July 2 ruling, from citing the following statements by the Kleins as proclaiming their intention to discriminate:

I didn’t want to be a part of her marriage, which I think is wrong.

I am who I am and I want to live my life the way I want to live my life and, you know, I choose to serve God.

It’s one of those things where you never want to see something you’ve put so much work into go belly up, but on the other hand, I have faith in the Lord and he’s taken care of us up to this point and I’m sure he will in the future.

We will continue to stand strong. Your religious freedom is becoming not free anymore. This is ridiculous that we cannot practice our faith. The Lord is good and we will continue to serve Him with all our heart.

Another statement that Avakian singles out seems more clear cut: “We don’t do same-sex marriage, same-sex wedding cakes.” Yet even here, Avakian is being willfully obtuse. The transcript of the radio interview in which Aaron Klein said this shows that he was merely recounting what he told the customer at the time he declined to bake her cake, not announcing his future intentions.

“The way we look at it, and if you put it in First Amendment terms, if you don’t know where the line is drawn, you don’t know how close you can get to it, which means that you tend to engage in less speech to try to stay away from going over the line,” says Grey. “Our perception was that it was in fact a gag order that basically limited us from talking about the case really at all. .  .  . [The Kleins] don’t know what might trigger a future violation and further complaints and further action by the commissioner.”

The hefty fine and the gag order are hardly the only outrageous things about Avakian’s decree. On page 34, the ruling reads, “In addition to any emotional suffering experienced by Complainants as a direct result of Sweetcakes’ refusal to bake them a cake (‘denial of service’), the agency also seeks damages for suffering caused to the Complainants by media publicity and social media response to this case.”

The state ultimately rejected the idea of additional damages for suffering caused by negative publicity, but its raising the possibility is cause for alarm. The state is essentially saying that if it charges you with violating the law, you can’t speak out against what’s happening to you without potentially subjecting yourself to increasingly harsh penalties—never mind that the Kleins are the ones who seem to have suffered the most from the attendant publicity. Their once-thriving bakery is closed, and Aaron Klein is trying to make ends meet and take care of their children by working as a trash collector.

What’s more, the ruling leaves little doubt that Avakian is not just determined to punish the Kleins—he’s hostile to Christian morality writ large. Consider this passage:

In addition to other emotional responses, [complainant Rachel Bowman-Cryer] described that being raised a Christian in the Southern Baptist Church, Respondent’s denial of service made her feel as if God made a mistake when he made her, that she wasn’t supposed to be, that she wasn’t supposed to love or be loved, have a family, or go to heaven. [Laurel Bowman-Cryer], who was raised Catholic, interpreted the denial to represent that she was not a creature created by god, not created with a soul and unworthy of holy love and life. .  .  . These are the reasonable and very real responses to not being allowed to participate in society like everyone else.

In other words, the fact that the Kleins justify their actions as fidelity to beliefs that are far from atypical in a country that is nominally 70 percent Christian only meant that they were inflicting additional pain on the complainants. But there is nothing reasonable about citing the lesbian couple’s own religious baggage to reinforce their claim to emotional damages against an ignorant third party. Under this logic, had they been denied a cake for secular reasons, the damage would have been less and the fine accordingly lower. It’s hard not to conclude that Avakian is punishing the Kleins for their Christian beliefs.

This is just what can be concluded from the state’s public pronouncements in the case. But there are a number of circumstantial and political factors that make what is going on more suspect.



Long article. Continued at above link

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:47 pm 
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$135K fine for not baking a cake.

Meanwhile the Gentle Giant's step-dad announced "Burn this bitch down"..which is exactly what happened..and he is allowed to apologize with no other consequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:19 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/03/happy-independence-day-state-of-oregon-orders-christian-bakers-to-stop-talking-about-their-faith/

Quote:
Happy Independence Day: State of Oregon fines Christian bakers $135,000 over a wedding cake

POSTED AT 11:31 AM ON JULY 3, 2015 BY ED MORRISSEY

The last we had heard from Aaron and Melissa Klein, the former owners of Sweet Cakes in Oregon that lost their bakery business after refusing to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, the site GoFundMe had shut down their crowdfunding operation. That was in April, but the drama was not over for the Kleins, who faced a stiff fine for their allegedly discriminatory conduct. Aaron and Melissa defended themselves in media interviews in an attempt to prevent the state of Oregon from further penalizing them, but Oregon Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian went even further than anyone might have imagined.

Not only did Avakian levy a $135,000 judgment against the Kleins for “emotional damages” to the couple denied a wedding cake, he slapped a gag order on them that forbids the Kleins from explaining to potential customers of Sweet Cakes why they won’t bake a cake for a same-sex wedding. Of course, since they’re no longer in business, it no longer matters — and even if they were, the $135,000 fine would make sure they weren’t. The Daily Signal poses this as a broader gag order than it is, however:

Oregon Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian finalized a preliminary ruling today ordering Aaron and Melissa Klein, the bakers who refused to make a cake for a same-sex wedding, to pay $135,000 in emotional damages to the couple they denied service.

“This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage,” Avakian wrote. “It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.”

In the ruling, Avakian placed an effective gag order on the Kleins, ordering them to “cease and desist” from speaking publicly about not wanting to bake cakes for same-sex weddings based on their Christian beliefs.

“This effectively strips us of all our First Amendment rights,” the Kleins, owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, which has since closed, wrote on their Facebook page. “According to the state of Oregon we neither have freedom of religion or freedom of speech.”


Daily Signal writer Kelsey Harkness posted the portion of the order in which the gag clause appears:

Image

This is not, as some on Twitter and the Daily Signal argue, a gag order against discussing the case. as Jeff B at AoSHQDD rightly points out. It relates to communication in their business about their policies, which would still be a violation of their First Amendment speech rights, but no longer applies. The Kleins lost their business almost two years ago due to the negative publicity of the complaint. This clause is moot now, which makes one wonder why Avakian bothered to include it at all. It also misrepresents the case at hand. The issue for Sweet Cakes, as it was in other cases, was not one of a refusal to serve on the basis of sexual orientation but the refusal to participate in an event that violated their religious tenets. The gag order clause makes it sound as though the Kleins refused service to people solely on the basis of sexual orientation, which was not the case.

The fine in this case is far more egregious. An average wedding cake will run around a thousand dollars, more or less — so for what kind of damages is Avakian compensating? Did the Kleins refuse to do 135 same-sex wedding ceremonies? Not exactly. As this video from April reminds us, the claim from the one couple contained a ridiculously long list of damages from this one refusal to do business with the couple, none of them substantiated by any medical or expert testimony:







As this article suggests:
https://pjmedia.com/trending/time-go-as ... -bake-nra/

It's time to find the most progressive bakery that you can (maybe just off campus in Berkeley, CA) and order the following cake:

Image

Quote:
Time to Go Ask Your Local Progressive Bakery to Bake an NRA Cake


Then sue them if they refuse.

PS. make sure that it isn't a chain bakery, rather one owned by a nice progressive "couple".

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:15 pm 
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This case is before the Supreme Court right now isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
This case is before the Supreme Court right now isn't it?



Not that I am aware of.

Latest that I could find on the Oregon gay wedding cake case was this:

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/n ... 985096001/

An Oregon Appeals Court unanimously upheld the case AGAINST the bakers (i.e. the couple were legally wrong in refusing to bake the cake).


I’m not an attorney. I think the couple might be able to appeal to the Oregon State Supreme Court if they wanted to. I don’t know if they could take it higher to the US Supreme Court should that fail.

The article above says that there is a similar case that is before the US Supreme Court:

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/n ... 820672001/

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 Post subject: Re: Debate Over Gay Marriage Rages As Nuclear Missiles Fly .
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Supreme Court ruling on Colorado gay wedding cake case may be influenced by past litigation

A different case, same type of case.

But yeah, the suggestion to get an NRA cake from a leftard baker sounds brilliant! :twisted:

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