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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:28 pm 
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Joe wrote:
...
In the last 10 years, NZ has tried to change their gun laws a few times and failed. NZ will now try again.
.

And this time the Kiwis follow Oz.

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
It is a fair question. I would say that: a variant (or perhaps more accurately a small and inter-related family of variants) of WSH which has become "one of the most fashionable" (if not THE most fashionable) among intelligentsia and elites in many Western nations "tore down the walls." If I had to pick ONE term/label to describe it I would say: Absolute Cultural Relativity is the most notable upstream cause of it.

Western Secular Humanism is "easy to say," but it is in truth an abstraction more than an actual "worldview." Still, it is a safe bet that if we were to sample 10,000 people from the population(s) we anticipate represent the worldview and perform assessments of those aspects of their thinking, believing and feeling we think would reflect a shared set of "WSH values" we would find strong evidence of such shared values. These populations would not in fact be restricted to "the West," but would share in common a predominantly (whether historically, or still today) Christian orientation. Many who regard themselves as devout members of one or another denomination of Christianity might nonetheless demonstrate very strongly shared manifestations of the same WSH values as their agnostic, or atheist or "other denominational" counterparts. Where else can Protestantism, Catholicism, Buddhism, etc. peacefully coexist and indeed embrace except in a context like Western Secular Humanism?

I suspect you dislike the term "secular" and that isn't surprising, but it is also an unnecessary response. You grew up in a secular society, even though you may not have realized it. The U.S. has ALWAYS been a secular society, albeit not a tyrannically ATHEISTIC society like the USSR or Communist China.
On the last bit your wrong, I've never been for religious governments, so your suspects are wrong.

As for the rest, nice walk around the question
Quote:
...but I ask, why is it Islam was restricted to small areas of southern eastern Europe until recently? Could it be Western secular humanism (WSH) tore down the walls that protected Europe and is making a mighty effort to do the same in the USA?


That tactic must be what they teach in liberal colleges. You just got an A+ for skirting the issue with a lot of words.

As for the word scholor, wasn't that held in high esteem even in Saint Thomas Aquinas' days"

Catchy tune ;) and the words are right on, right?

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Last edited by abradley on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:53 pm 
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abradley wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
It is a fair question. I would say that: a variant (or perhaps more accurately a small and inter-related family of variants) of WSH which has become "one of the most fashionable" (if not THE most fashionable) among intelligentsia and elites in many Western nations "tore down the walls." If I had to pick ONE term/label to describe it I would say: Absolute Cultural Relativity is the most notable upstream cause of it.

Western Secular Humanism is "easy to say," but it is in truth an abstraction more than an actual "worldview." Still, it is a safe bet that if we were to sample 10,000 people from the population(s) we anticipate represent the worldview and perform assessments of those aspects of their thinking, believing and feeling we think would reflect a shared set of "WSH values" we would find strong evidence of such shared values. These populations would not in fact be restricted to "the West," but would share in common a predominantly (whether historically, or still today) Christian orientation. Many who regard themselves as devout members of one or another denomination of Christianity might nonetheless demonstrate very strongly shared manifestations of the same WSH values as their agnostic, or atheist or "other denominational" counterparts. Where else can Protestantism, Catholicism, Buddhism, etc. peacefully coexist and indeed embrace except in a context like Western Secular Humanism?

I suspect you dislike the term "secular" and that isn't surprising, but it is also an unnecessary response. You grew up in a secular society, even though you may not have realized it. The U.S. has ALWAYS been a secular society, albeit not a tyrannically ATHEISTIC society like the USSR or Communist China.
On the last bit your wrong, I've never been for religious governments, so your suspects are wrong.

As for the rest, nice walk around the question
Quote:
...but I ask, why is it Islam was restricted to small areas of southern eastern Europe until recently? Could it be Western secular humanism (WSH) tore down the walls that protected Europe and is making a mighty effort to do the same in the USA?


That tactic must be what they teach in liberal colleges. You just got an A+ for skirting the issue with a lot of words.

As for the word scholor, wasn't that held in high esteem in Saint Thomas Acquines' days"

Catchy tune ;) and the words are right on, right?

I would not blame "Western Secular Humanism" for this Christchurch massacre like you guys seem to do. ;)

The more I blame the Kiwi gun laws. :twisted:

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:41 pm 
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abradley wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
It is a fair question. I would say that: a variant (or perhaps more accurately a small and inter-related family of variants) of WSH which has become "one of the most fashionable" (if not THE most fashionable) among intelligentsia and elites in many Western nations "tore down the walls." If I had to pick ONE term/label to describe it I would say: Absolute Cultural Relativity is the most notable upstream cause of it.

Western Secular Humanism is "easy to say," but it is in truth an abstraction more than an actual "worldview." Still, it is a safe bet that if we were to sample 10,000 people from the population(s) we anticipate represent the worldview and perform assessments of those aspects of their thinking, believing and feeling we think would reflect a shared set of "WSH values" we would find strong evidence of such shared values. These populations would not in fact be restricted to "the West," but would share in common a predominantly (whether historically, or still today) Christian orientation. Many who regard themselves as devout members of one or another denomination of Christianity might nonetheless demonstrate very strongly shared manifestations of the same WSH values as their agnostic, or atheist or "other denominational" counterparts. Where else can Protestantism, Catholicism, Buddhism, etc. peacefully coexist and indeed embrace except in a context like Western Secular Humanism?

I suspect you dislike the term "secular" and that isn't surprising, but it is also an unnecessary response. You grew up in a secular society, even though you may not have realized it. The U.S. has ALWAYS been a secular society, albeit not a tyrannically ATHEISTIC society like the USSR or Communist China.
On the last bit your wrong, I've never been for religious governments, so your suspects are wrong.

As for the rest, nice walk around the question
Quote:
...but I ask, why is it Islam was restricted to small areas of southern eastern Europe until recently? Could it be Western secular humanism (WSH) tore down the walls that protected Europe and is making a mighty effort to do the same in the USA?


That tactic must be what they teach in liberal colleges. You just got an A+ for skirting the issue with a lot of words.

As for the word scholor, wasn't that held in high esteem even in Saint Thomas Aquinas' days"

Catchy tune ;) and the words are right on, right?


I assume what you are alleging is that the "reason" Islam has made notable inroads into Europe in the last 30 years is the decline of religious affiliation among native Europeans? In sum, you are blaming the "invasion" of Islam into Western lands on the rise of secularism? Is that what you are on about?

As I said, the U.S. has always been secular, you--yes even you in all your Catholic obsessiveness--have always been secular, and most Christians born in the past 100 years or so have been secular. Let me remind you of the actual definition of that word "secular".

Quote:
sec·u·lar
/ˈsekyələr/Submit
adjective
1. denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.
"secular buildings"
synonyms: nonreligious, lay, nonchurch, temporal, worldly, earthly, profane; More
2. CHRISTIAN CHURCH
(of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule; not belonging to or living in a monastic or other order.
noun
1. a secular priest.


We could compile a voluminous list of attitudes, activities or beliefs which have no religious or spiritual basis which are nonetheless part and parcel of the daily lives of millions of Christians, including yourself. So whether you like it or not, Catholicism, and most Christian denominations have become progressively secularized over the past couple centuries and are now in the peculiar situation of being "religions" which nonetheless espouse profoundly secular views such as: evolution is real, or homosexuality is not a sin, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:58 pm 
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Quote:
... And this time the Kiwis follow Oz ...


Here in OZ we take our gun ownership seriously !!!

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:03 pm 
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jwilkerson wrote:
Quote:
... And this time the Kiwis follow Oz ...


Here in OZ we take our gun ownership seriously !!!

Sez a man suffering of most serious case of g.a.s. ever. :roll:

And I assume your OZ is not down under at all. :lol:

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


Last edited by nero on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:04 pm 
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Quote:
... I am flying to Christchurch on Thursday ...


Doesn't sound like a sight-seeing tour ...

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
We could compile a voluminous list of attitudes, activities or beliefs which have no religious or spiritual basis which are nonetheless part and parcel of the daily lives of millions of Christians, including yourself. So whether you like it or not, Catholicism, and most Christian denominations have become progressively secularized over the past couple centuries and are now in the peculiar situation of being "religions" which nonetheless espouse profoundly secular views such as: evolution is real, or homosexuality is not a sin, etc.

viewtopic.php?p=349588#p349588

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 Post subject: Re: MOSQUE TERROR NEW ZEALAND, 27 KILLED, MASSACRE LIVE STR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:35 pm 
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nero wrote:



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