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 Post subject: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:53 am 
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The last couple of games have made it clear we really need to work on this. So I am going to try and give out some pointers on tanking troops from combat. I am by no means a expert, but have managed to pull my division or Corps back from the brink of destruction twice so far. The first thing you have to do, is know when it is time to cut and run for the next defense position. If you wait too long, odds are you will either loose control totally or a major portion of you force. Case in point tonight's game, 1st Corps (Chi and Harry) had literally started the game semi surrounded by the enemy, my Corps, had started to the west of them a ways off. I got Ripper's div deployed into a ridge line facing the rebs hammering 1st Corps, and I took my div across a valley and up in the hills to the south of those rebs, while deploying to start hitting the rebs in the backside, what do I find, another reb div on my far right flank. So I did a full 180 degree pivot to face the new threat, after about 15 min of fighting, my left started to give way, knowing that the rebs could then sweep down my line from higher ground if my left collapsed, I began my pull back. I worked my way from safe to most dangerous, 1st to go, was my ammo wagon and 3 of my 4 arty batteries, then I sent the brigade on my right flank, then yanked my center brigade.......by the time I finished and had my entire div (minus 1 arty battery and my left flank brigade) back across the valley with Ripper, the count was, 2 full infantry brigades rescued, 3 of 4 arty batteries rescued and by game end, I had managed to rescue a further 2 regiments from my collapsed left flank. Here is how I yank troops from combat.

1. TC is your friend, use her big time. First thing to TC when conducting any type of pull back of troops in battle, either for a complete withdraw or resupply or whatever is the Div commander if he is not you, if you are Div command, TC the brigade commander so he will leave you alone. I will usually just leave him wherever he is at until I have yanked his troops

2. TC the safest or easiest regiment you can pull back from the front, give him a destination, column formation, if he is in active battle you might use the "just run away" button on the bottom of the Bugle toolbar which I find works great for this. Your troops will act as though they do when they break and run on their own, big difference is it is a ordered run away and you can tell them how far and where to run to, they will not answer any commands until they reach the dest nor stop to shoot.

3. Know where you are going to run to. Does no good to just yank all those guys a short distance with rebs right on your backside. Pick a point a decent ways off. I try to pull artillery first as once I get them back to my next defense line, they can provide covering fire for the rest of my force.

4. Any unit TC'ed to yank to a new line, you leave TC'ed until the entire force is recovered from the fight you can. No sense TC'ing them, move to safety, un TC only to find them heading back to the front you just yanked them from. You can un TC regiments, but only if their commanders are TC'ed. Least that way your force will auto engage, auto rotate to face a threat etc, but will not advance on the enemy.

5. If you are a Corps commander, make sure you TC the dang div commander along with his brigade commanders otherwise units will not do what you want them to do. Trying to order human controlled troops as Corps commander is a serious pain in the butt. You have to Detach them from the div. I will usually if I am forced to do this, detach the brigade commander, then detach the individual regiments from him. Usually this is done to recover routed troops that have fled but come back to life and get them to a safe place.

6. Ride as close to your troops as you can when yanking them back, you don't want a delay waiting on couriers to arrive or them shot down before arriving. You can find me almost always in the thick with my troops, rarely am I sitting on a hill any distance from my troops. I will ride to high ground and take a look when I can, but I am usually pretty close to the heaviest fighting.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:33 am 
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I still find the TC/attach business confusing in a battle. Is there an easy way to spot which are TC'ed and which are still attached?

Also, does withdraw by recoil allow a destination or a direction of withdrawal to be specified, or is it just away from the direction of fire?

Still a lot I don't yet understand. I didn't realize until yesterday that "just run" had a destination.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:56 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
I still find the TC/attach business confusing in a battle. Is there an easy way to spot which are TC'ed and which are still attached?

Also, does withdraw by recoil allow a destination or a direction of withdrawal to be specified, or is it just away from the direction of fire?

Still a lot I don't yet understand. I didn't realize until yesterday that "just run" had a destination.


I think that the TC'D units flag is highlighted, and non TC'd is not, but to me it's not easy to tell the difference.

In the heat of battle I probably confuse the two all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Correct, TC will have the flag lit up.............not lit is AI control.

Withdraw by recoil is no destination, straight back basically. There are a couple of the run buttons. You have the fallback (shoot while falling back) then on same button but right side of it, fall back but run, then you have the retreat button.............then there is a flat our run button that allows you to set a dest for the to run to. I will try to figure out how to take a screenshot and show you. Best way is it load the game up solo with Bugle and scope the buttons and then test each one so you see what it does and such. Hard to explain fully.

Detach is sort of a pain and takes serious getting used to, I will detach like last night, the 2nd NY.............I can still control them (since they usually stay very close to me) and the brigade commander ignores them totally. When I have the 1st US Sharpshooters in the brigade solo, I will detach the brigade commander (which also detach the reg with him) and then TC the reg.............now the div commander leaves my brigade commander alone, but the reg does only what I want it to do and the brigade commander just follows along with the reg like a trained puppy dog.

TC is a short term control, detach is for longer time frames. Want a brigade to stay where you put them, detach the brigade from the div. Now they will react and stuff to any enemy that arrives still. But you have to still keep an eye on the brigade commander (make sure you have the stance set on him).


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:06 pm 
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I struggle with the detach vs the TC. From your example just above, I normally TC the brigade commander and control from there. I do the same with regiments. Is there additional advantage to detach AND TC?

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:52 pm 
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I'm all moved in and settled in to my new place and up for a battle maybe tomorrow night?

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:20 am 
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You know I am up for it, hope you eat your wheaties as this scenario generator doing random placement is a evil bitch. We have had a full Corps butchered to hell in 2 games using it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:47 am 
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Detach is for special occasions. I would use it very sparingly. But it can be useful when you need a brigade to guard a flank and the AI div commander keeps trying to yank that brigade. If you TC the commander of the brigade, he will not auto deploy his regiments to meet a enemy, but he will if detached from his higher command. The regiments themselves will auto face, but the brigade will not wheel to face the threat. Nor under TC will the brigade commander ride around lending his command support to regiments, but he will when detached.

TC of regiments gives you ultimate control, as they do exactly what you want, and if you are very close to them, the orders are instantly carried out. I do this quite often in a serious fight, but you need to be in the area as the TC'ed regiments will not auto face a enemy, they will stand there and take the abuse until you tell them to do something about it. Hence the reason folks have trouble finding me on the battlefield, they are looking on high ground for me, but odds are, just look for the heaviest fighting in my area and you will find me very close to that area. Down low in the weeds with my troopers. Usually with 3-4 regiments under TC command. Once the fight is basically won, I will return control to the AI and start getting a better feel for the fight overall and then move to the next hot spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting Withdrawls
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:24 am 
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Thanks, learned the TC lesson the hard way first few times out, but once learned..........and the detached just not comfortable. Back from the big apple with no travel in the near future, available for MP whenever.

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