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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:26 am 
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Scharfschütze wrote:
Summing up on the Elections, May succeeded in losing her majority instead of strengthening it and now NIrish ex-loyalists but somehow more europhile than the Torys get their say?


Aside from not wanting a hard border in Northern Ireland - something nobody wants - the DUP are considerably more muscular on Brexit than the Tories are.

Every day that goes by after this election is pleasing me. Think the Left are too busy rejoicing at Corbyn not exactly crashing and burning to realise that

a) despite doing better than expected, he lost

and

b) the political calculus now is more in favour of Brexit than ever if May is dependent on the DUP

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:30 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815954/DUP-Nigel-Farage-Ukip-Conservative-Brexit-Theresa-May



Farage! :lol:

Still don´t get why the DUP would be soft-Brexit, what is their angle here?

Arlene Foster - judging by some of the photos I´ve seen the camera does struggle with her at times... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:54 am 
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Scharfschütze wrote:
Still don´t get why the DUP would be soft-Brexit, what is their angle here?


Their position is nuanced. They are not soft brexit though, not at all. They are hard Brexiteers but with two wrinkles.

They don't want a hard border with the Republic of Ireland, fair enough.
They also don't want Northern Ireland to be treated any different from the rest of the UK. These people are hard core unionists, bear in mind - they don't like the idea of Northern Ireland being apart from the rest of the UK. This is an issue, as an obvious 'keep everybody happy' solution to the Irish issue is to have an internal border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

The DUP don't want that.

Aside from that they are pretty hard core. Northern Ireland in general is a lot more hard core than the rest of the UK... for obvious reasons. Wouldn't want em in charge. Religious social conservatives that they are, I bet abradley would love em, well, aside from the fact that they hate Catholics but can't have it all eh.

Arlene Foster, their leader - her dad was shot in the head and killed by the IRA in the 70s. Corbyn kissing the ass of the IRA means, he can forget Arlene Foster doing anything for him. She already said that even if the DUP disagree with the Tories heavily, there's no way they will allow a Corbyn government in if it's within their power.

Karma is a bitch isn't it, Corbyn!

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Oh one fun wrinkle, the Good Friday Agreement that ended the Troubles in Northern Ireland requires the Northern Ireland minister, and I believe the London government as a whole, to be neutral.

Obviously being neutral is a bit hard if you're depending on DUP votes to stay in power. They'll have to be very careful about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Quck rundown on the DUP...

Quote:
The Conservatives lost their overall majority in the general election and Prime Minister Theresa May is now dependent on seeking alliances with parties to get the 326 votes she needs to pass legislation in a hung Parliament.

Theresa May has already said that she will form a government with the support of Northern Irish party the Democratic Unionists (DUP).

The DUP have the crucial 10 extra seats needed by the Tories to govern, and as a result will wield a lot of influence in the new administration.

Party leader Arlene Foster will meet the prime minister on Tuesday, and she has already said she will be seeking a better deal for Northern Ireland.

It is not clear what shape the proposed Tory/DUP alliance will take, but Ms Foster confirmed it is not going to be a formal coalition.

On Friday morning, the DUP was one of the most searched terms on Google - so what do they stand for?

Basically, they are pro-union (UK, not Europe), pro-Brexit and socially conservative.

The Conservatives lost their overall majority in the general election and Prime Minister Theresa May is now dependent on seeking alliances with parties to get the 326 votes she needs to pass legislation in a hung Parliament.

Theresa May has already said that she will form a government with the support of Northern Irish party the Democratic Unionists (DUP).

The DUP have the crucial 10 extra seats needed by the Tories to govern, and as a result will wield a lot of influence in the new administration.

Party leader Arlene Foster will meet the prime minister on Tuesday, and she has already said she will be seeking a better deal for Northern Ireland.

It is not clear what shape the proposed Tory/DUP alliance will take, but Ms Foster confirmed it is not going to be a formal coalition.

On Friday morning, the DUP was one of the most searched terms on Google - so what do they stand for?

Basically, they are pro-union (UK, not Europe), pro-Brexit and socially conservative.

The party is now the fifth largest in Parliament; its 36% share of the vote in Northern Ireland resulted in 10 MPs being returned to Westminster, but it wasn't always so popular.

Hardline unionism

It started as a one-man-band, with Rev Ian Paisley, a fundamentalist Protestant preacher, at its helm. He founded the party in 1971 in opposition to what he saw as the increasingly liberal approach of the Ulster Unionists; the party of the political establishment since the state was founded in 1921.

Unlike nationalists, who want to see the Irish border removed and rule from Westminster ended, unionists want the link with Britain preserved. For most of his political career, Ian Paisley saw the prospect of devolved power sharing with his political enemies as a Trojan Horse to Irish unity.

He set his face against successive attempts to cobble together an agreement between nationalists and unionists, knowing that simply by saying no he could make political gains. And so it was that by 2005 the Democratic Unionist Party, which started as the party of resistance to any hint of accommodation, displaced the ruling class of the Ulster Unionists as the party which could legitimately claim to speak for all of unionism.

Power sharing with Sinn Fein followed in 2007 and, until recently, the DUP had a reputation for fiscal prudence and deft political strategising.

When Ian Paisley became first minister in Stormont - Northern Ireland's seat of government - with Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness acting as deputy first minister, the two of them got on so well that they were nicknamed the "chuckle brothers". But all of that seems like a distant memory.

The party remained electorally dominant under its next leader Peter Robinson, but relations between nationalists and unionists in the country's fragile power-sharing executive began to cool.

After Mr Robinson lost his Westminster seat in the 2010 general election, Mrs Foster took over as party leader in December 2015, and first minister in 2016.

Her leadership has been sullied by controversy over the Renewable Heat Incentive Deal, which saw the power-sharing executive collapse in 2017, causing a snap election in Stormont.

Northern Ireland is still without a government but the DUP has found itself in a position to influence political events across the entire United Kingdom, and that has led to scrutiny of some of the party's policies.

Social issues

The party may be less overtly religious than it was in the days when Rev Paisley was in charge, but on social issues it is still deeply conservative. It opposes same-sex marriage and is anti-abortion - abortion remains illegal in Northern Ireland, except in specific medical cases.

DUP East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson, a devout climate change denier, was once Northern Ireland's environment minister.

Mervyn Storey, the party's former education spokesman, once called for creationism - the belief that human life did not evolve over millions of years but was created by God - to be taught alongside evolution in science classes.

He has also objected to an exhibition on evolution in the Ulster Museum and signs at the Giant's Causeway in his North Antrim constituency.
Sir Elton John

Then there's the party's historical links to loyalist paramilitaries.

During this general election campaign, the DUP's Emma Little-Pengelly received the endorsement of the three biggest loyalist paramilitary organisations.
Media captionThe DUP: Partners in government

Although the DUP said it did not accept their support, in her acceptance speech, Mrs Little-Pengelly thanked those who came out to vote for her, singling out several loyalist working class areas in Belfast.

In December, the DUP's Trevor Clarke was criticised by Sir Elton John after the politician admitted he did not know heterosexual people could contract HIV until a charity explained the facts to him.
Image caption A new frontier? The border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland

The DUP was a wholehearted supporter of Brexit and got heavily involved in the Leave campaign.

After Brexit, the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland becomes an EU frontier and the DUP is not in favour of a so-called hard border. This means no checkpoints or intrusive enforcement.

So no hard border but in the round, the party's vision of Brexit is a fairly hard one - it was the most Eurosceptic party in the UK before the ascent of UKIP.

The party also wants to leave the EU customs union - their manifesto says there should be "progress on new free trade deals with the rest of the world" - and end the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, ensuring that in future British law is supreme.

One red line is the idea of Northern Ireland being granted some sort of "special status" when Brexit comes to pass - the DUP will not stand for any arrangement that physically sets the region apart from anywhere else in the UK.

Its 2017 manifesto set out its position on Brexit and other issues, including:

Further increases to the personal tax allowance - similar to Conservative Party policy
Continued rises in the national living wage - similar
Renew Trident - similar
Revisit terrorism laws - similar
Abolish air passenger duty - different from the Conservatives
Cut VAT for tourism businesses - different
Call for "triple lock" on pensions - different

Its key slogan during the campaign turned out to be rather prescient: "A vote for the DUP team is a vote to send 'Team Northern Ireland' to Westminster. It is a team that has real influence".
Image copyright EPA
Image caption Theresa May literally bumped into Arlene Foster at an agricultural show while the PM was on the campaign trail in Northern Ireland

Ahead of the election, Northern Ireland's largest party made clear its preference was for a Conservative rather than Labour government.

The DUP's most senior MPs, including its Westminster leader Nigel Dodds, have been consistently critical of the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, particularly for his past links with Sinn Féin and his stance on security issues.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40217141

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Here's the DUP boss guy in Westminster (Foster is too busy running Northern Ireland!) in action a few months ago... making sure Brexit happens.



Shame about all the god bothering, but hey, in the language of intersectionalism, he's definitely an ally. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:59 pm 
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So I noticed you guys have a Sinn Fein party . . . they must not get along too well with the DUP, so I'm assuming Sinn Fein align more with Labour?

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
So I noticed you guys have a Sinn Fein party . . . they must not get along too well with the DUP, so I'm assuming Sinn Fein align more with Labour?


Due to the requirement to take an oath of allegiance to the Queen, Sinn Fein don't take their seats in Westminster.

Normally thats it. That said they are mates with Corbyn (not Labour... only Corbyn) and he was begging them to take their seats apparently to support him. ;)

In Northern Ireland though, yes, they are the guys opposed to the DUP.

While the Troubles was ongoing you used to have four parties there, the Ulster Unionist UUP, the DUP, Sinn Fein, and the SDLP (Social Democratic and Labour Party I think?). The UUP and the SDLP were the 'moderate' left and right (or unionist/nationalist), with the DUP and Sinn Fein being the hard core ones, the ones with links to paramilitaries. For some reason (dont really follow NI politics much) about the time the peace was signed the moderate ones shrank away to almost nothing and now DUP/Sinn Fein are the big two there. Maybe because as they've all renounced violence now you don't really need the moderate ones anymore? Who knows.

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Well thankfully, those particular "Troubles" seem to be far in ancient history now and may never come back. That in mind, glad to see both sides of the Troubles having their representative role in U.K.

Had a look at Sinn Fein's wiki page and it mentioned that "abstentionism" policy. Strange . . .

Also a point of interest . . . one of the few political parties globally with an active and official representative presence in two nations!

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 Post subject: Re: Snap Election!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:31 pm 
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<<Sinn Fein don't take their seats in Westminster>>

Where do they "take their seats" ??

If they are Irish, they would sit in Ireland ... and that would be "irrelevant" ... but if they sit in England or Scotland or Wales, then would they be NOT Irish?

In which case, why would they be "Sinn Fein" ??

(Confused in Kansas ... :) )

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