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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:06 am 
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Mac wrote:
Boris Johnson has resigned as Foreign Secretary amid a Brexit crisis. May could be on the verge of facing a leadership battle...
...

Davis Davis and Boris Johnson could have resigned on Friday, but didn't want to take a taxi. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Mac wrote:
Boris Johnson has resigned as Foreign Secretary amid a Brexit crisis. May could be on the verge of facing a leadership battle...

Quote:
Boris Johnson has resigned as Foreign Secretary amid a growing political crisis over the UK's Brexit strategy.

He is the second senior cabinet minister to quit within hours following Brexit Secretary David Davis's exit.

His departure came shortly before Theresa May is due to address Parliament about her new Brexit plan, which has angered many Tory MPs.

In a statement, No 10 thanked Mr Johnson for his work and said a replacement would be announced shortly.

The BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg said Mr Johnson's exit had turned an "embarrassing and difficult situation for the PM into potentially a full-blown crisis".

She said he was not any ordinary cabinet minister but was the "face" of the Leave campaign during the 2016 referendum and his departure would fuel speculation about a leadership challenge.

She said she had been told by a source that either Theresa May "dumps" the plan signed off at Chequers or "another minister will go, then another, then another, then another".

The UK is due to leave the European Union on 29 March 2019, but the two sides have yet to agree how trade will work between the UK and the EU afterwards.

There have been differences within the Conservatives over how far the UK should prioritise the economy by compromising on issues such as leaving the remit of the European Court of Justice and ending free movement of people.

Theresa May only has a majority in Parliament with the support in key votes of the 10 MPs from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party, so any split raises questions about whether her plan could survive a Commons vote - and has also led to renewed questions about whether she will face a challenge to her position.

Labour said Mr Johnson's exit - on top of Mr Davis's departure - left Theresa May with "zero authority".

Former Tory chairman Grant Shapps, who last year called on Mrs May to consider her position, said it was the wrong time for a leadership contest and he hoped it would not happen.

He told the BBC a contest would take three months and "we physically do not have the time for that" given the UK is due to leave the EU next March and both sides want a Brexit deal by October.

Mr Johnson, who has been foreign secretary since June 2016, had been due to attend a summit on the future of the Western Balkans in London but did not show up - fuelling rumours about his imminent departure.

Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson said the government was "in meltdown".

"This is complete and utter chaos," he said. "The country is at a standstill with a divided and shambolic government. The prime minister can't deliver Brexit and has zero authority left."

But Mr Johnson's move was welcomed by former UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who said the ex-mayor of London had the chance to "save Brexit".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44770847


So . . . it sounds like (and correct me if what I am reading between the lines doesn't sound right): May, is aligned with the No-Exiters, despite being the boss of a party that is ostensibly a pro-Brexit party. She is doing what she can to delay, obstruct and sabotage the whole Brexit process, and her strongly pro-Brexit ministers are revolting by resigning?

At what point does a "no confidence" call (or however it works in your system) get made and the Tories vote up a new PM?

I was under the impression that, from a "legal" if not also an "ethical" and philosophical standpoint, the referendum(s) which determined the public's will on the question of Brexit were "BINDING." Meaning that, short of an authoritarian takeover of your country (which arguably seems to be what has been happening by degrees and under as much crypsis as they could manage) and breaching of its democratic principles, Brexit was an obligation which your rulers have to the people of the U.K.?

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
So . . . it sounds like (and correct me if what I am reading between the lines doesn't sound right): May, is aligned with the No-Exiters, despite being the boss of a party that is ostensibly a pro-Brexit party. She is doing what she can to delay, obstruct and sabotage the whole Brexit process, and her strongly pro-Brexit ministers are revolting by resigning?

David Davis who resigned late last night seems to think so...

Quote:
Is it really leaving at all?

"I don't think so."

Forget the politicking and the crazy, bitter briefings.

If the past few weeks has been like watching the Conservative Party have a nervous breakdown in front of our eyes, this morning they are truly losing the plot.

Set aside the psychodrama about minicab cards, late night phone calls, toasts over dinner at Chequers, a foreign secretary no one can find. More of that later no doubt.

What sticks out the most from my interview with David Davis this morning is a very simple question we asked. Is the prime minister's plan really leaving the EU?

"I don't think so", he said.

That is the sentiment that's widely shared among the Tory party, and perhaps among many voters too. And guess what? It doesn't always matter which side of the referendum they were on either.

Some former Remainers say "look, this is a dodgy compromise, what's the point? If we are going to do this, then for goodness sake let's do it properly or just stay in".

From some Leavers, like Mr Davis, you also get "look, this is a dodgy compromise, what's the point? If we are going to do it, then for goodness sake let's do it properly".

Yes, I did mean to write the same line twice just then. We are a million miles from Tory unity, but weirdly there is some agreement at the fringes of the party that the current compromise is, as compromises so often are, something that pleases hardly anyone.

And it would be better for No 10 just to go the "full Norway", a close relationship with the EU not a Viking experience, or the "Canada plus", a free trade agreement not a ten-day tour of the Rockies, or frankly, not leave at all.

David Davis' resignation on its own - so far - is not going to bring down the government. It could well unleash a host of events that leads us to that place, but we're still a long way from that.

But what it does do is take the lid off the boiling pot of frustration, angst, ambition and despair you find in pockets of the governing party and a sense on both sides that this kind of Brexit might not be worth it. That's not to say most Tory MPs are in the mood for a giant ruckus.

Most of them in fact probably back the Chequers compromise, grateful at last that the Cabinet - well most of them - found agreement.

And believing, quite possibly correctly, that the vast majority of the public aren't paying attention to much of the flouncing in any case, so can ministers please, please, please, please, get on with it and just shut up.

For Number 10, the Chequers plan is a clever enough compromise they believe can get the EU on to the next phase of negotiations.

Remember - all of this is happening in order that officials can get down to actually negotiating the nitty-gritty of the long term relationship.

It is perfectly possible that within 72 hours or so it is situation normal, well normal-ish.

But David Davis was an "active backbencher", who delighted in making waves on the issues he cares about for many years.

If he thinks Theresa May's Brexit does not mean Brexit, expect plenty of trouble ahead even if today's particular storm passes before the heat wave breaks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44767321


Quote:
At what point does a "no confidence" call (or however it works in your system) get made and the Tories vote up a new PM?

When enough MP's rebel and someone steps up to challenge her for leadership.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Opinion polls put Labour ahead of Mayhem for the first time this weekend. I think it's not quite fair to say that the public aren't paying attention.

Also bear in mind that the Tory membership are WAY more eurosceptic than their politician representatives. The mood among them is supposedly absolutely incandescent. The Remainer twats infesting the Tory wing of the establishment are going to have to make a decision if they like the EU more than they like their own party because they'll be out for a decade minimum if they betray the public and their own membership so spectacularly.

Bit like what happened the last time a Tory PM grovelled up to the EU in defiance of his own party - John Major in the 90s.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Hopefully Great Britain will not fall.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:55 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
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Hopefully that means that, after May (the modern day analogue of Chamberlain) you (we!) get a modern day analogue of Churchill!?!
Image

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:02 pm 
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I wish re. Churchill.

I just can't see the UK staying in the EU in the final analysis though. Surely the relationship is fatally poisoned now. Even if they run another referendum and Remain wins it thanks to the absolutely relentless, non stop bullshit the BBC has spewed in the last couple of years, apparently aided and abetted by the hopeless government - even if. There's going to be a third to half of the electorate who hate the EU's guts. Opinion polls havn't budged in two years despite the absolutely shameless propaganda, all signs are if they reran it they'd get the same answer anyway.

It'll just keep on going. If they thought we were the awkward squad before, it'll be doubly so now! No. I don't think even the EU wants that.

As for Corbyn he's an arch-leaver. He's actually had a ridiculous number of resignations from the Labour benches and mostly because he's been whipping his MPs into voting for various Brexit bills. Sure, he's a commie, but commies don't like the EU as nationalisation is verboten under EU rules.

Vichy May may or may not survive, but given the parliamentary arithmetic (Conservative MPs are creatures of the Establishment in the main, they don't want to leave, even if their members do by a majority of something like 3 to 1) she'll probably manage to cling on. Next election is 2022 at the latest, so she could in theory cling on till then, no reason for leadership change and a new general election. They are shit scared of Corbyn, and so they should be, because when you think about it, Corbyn is the electorate's vengeance made flesh. If the Tories fuck it up beyond all repair, they will get hammered. If there's ever a PM Corbyn the useless, gutless, treacherous Tories are the one and only reason why.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Hopefully that means that, after May (the modern day analogue of Chamberlain) you (we!) get a modern day analogue of Churchill!?!

Lib Dem MP Layla Moran has called Johnson a "poundshop Churchill impressionist" and Rees-Mogg is saying that he would make a "brillant" PM...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ister.html

Prime Minster Boris Johnson. Now that would really piss up nero's kilt. :lol:

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