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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:13 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
So then what are the alternatives if you want Brexit to be implemented?
(this is presumed for the next election)
---Can't vote Labour as they will surely never want to implement it
---continue on with the Tories (who are apparently mucking the implementation up)
---Vote UKIP into power

What would you suggest EUBanana or are there additional options?


Well, the Tories have fucked it. In fact according to that it looks like it's not even that. They've not even really tried, had no intention of trying, and still don't. They've gone through the motions and that's it, presumably to quite cynically win votes. My treachery sensor did light up when May was anointed without even a vote by the party members; May campaigned for Remain after all. It's quite shocking really, they triggered the withdrawal process with no intention of preparing for withdrawal at all? and after a year, still no intention? The mind boggles.

Given that they've fucked it and time is almost out, options are limited now. I'm inclined to be in favour of EFTA membership at this point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... ssociation

It's not ideal and I'd consider it a first step on the road not the end destination, but it's off the shelf so even this band of slippery incompetents couldn't fuck it up. In the early days after the vote the EFTA guys did say that while they had some reservations they wouldn't block the UK joining so it's basically a done deal if they go for that option. After all, EFTA was originally set up by the UK itself - until Traitor Heath left them in the lurch and signed us up in the 70s. Treachery is what Tories are all about, you think the Republicans are bad... jeez.

EFTA is a free trade area not a customs union so it allows signing of trade deals, thus allowing the useless UK government to slowly inch away from the EU and towards the rest of the world. It's not ideal though because EFTA still has certain EU requirements, and the EU being what it is, the EU is doing it's utmost to try and corrupt EFTA and bounce it more thoroughly into the EU. But I would be mollified. What to do about EFTA membership can then be left to future parliaments.

The mongs in charge ruled out EFTA last year though. At some point someone is going to be taking a fall big time.

It'll take miracles to get Mayhem re-elected after this sort of bullshit. I'm kinda assuming that in 2022 she'll be swept from office by a baying mob of Corbynites while Brexit and Tory voters just impassively watch, if the Tories don't pass her a glass of whiskey and a revolver first.


More than happy to be proven wrong. Bear in mind the article is from the guy who ran the Leave campaign, a man known as an "evil genius", so perhaps it needs a pinch of salt, and it's only his opinion even if he's being straight. So maybe everything is peachy and Brexit will happen in good order. But I'm not exactly Tory faithful, to put it mildly, so I have a suspicious mind when in comes to their honesty.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:22 am 
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What happened to the passion of the Exiter campaigners? Farage for example?

Did they just collapse with exhaustion, or were they too treacherous?

A free and fair democratic vote for a dramatic change in national policy, followed by an "administration" (oligarchic regime seems more appropriate) which lets the clock run out on the change is IMO the textbook definition of a non-democratic polity doing its best impression of a democracy.

If this happened in the U.S., I suspect there would be rebels in the hills by now.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:42 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
What happened to the passion of the Exiter campaigners? Farage for example?

Did they just collapse with exhaustion, or were they too treacherous?

A free and fair democratic vote for a dramatic change in national policy, followed by an "administration" (oligarchic regime seems more appropriate) which lets the clock run out on the change is IMO the textbook definition of a non-democratic polity doing its best impression of a democracy.

If this happened in the U.S., I suspect there would be rebels in the hills by now.


I think people will be pissed off, hence why I think May is going to have a rather rough time of it. I mean Dominic Cummings in that screed above thinks dire things will happen on this course of action. I've seen some people think that betrayal or catastrophe over this might mean the total collapse of the Tories, certainly their membership seems to be in almost terminal decline these days. But who knows.

As for Farage and co, well, they aren't MPs. It's hard to get elected to the Commons when all the parties are dead set against you, I mean Labour and Tories were campaigning together whenever Farage ran. The Establishment doesn't want people like him having any say. And Tories absolutely HATE kippers and brexiteers, more than they do Labour, which says it all really. Also post referendum the gloves have really come off the MSM on the subject. Non stop propaganda, it's not like Farage is getting invited to debates these days.

The Leave guys have mostly died on their ass but polling suggests that's because people are basically in "job done" mode, and are happy to finally see their issue being addressed. Betrayal hasn't happened yet. If it does happen I assume we're back to 2015 again, but with knobs on.

Though every year that passes another couple hundred t housand EU citizens naturalise here. It's not exactly hard to divine what the ruling class are doing.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:44 am 
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I kinda said years ago that euroscepticism will be tolerated and pandered to so long as it doesn't actually threaten to change anything. And that if it did, when it came to crunch time, the usual slurs, racist, Nazi, xenophobe etc will be brought out and they'll try and push it out of the overton window.

That's pretty much happened since the vote. The media classes seem to have spazzed out completely now. It's not somehing to pretend to play nice with anymore, it's something to destroy. I guess they are probably scared shitless.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:59 am 
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You guys need to take back your country. I'd join the volunteer brigades to fight for the freedom of the British people. If you guys are not free, then the prospects are inherently worse for ALL OF US. Great Britain is the birthplace of modern democracy and secular humanism. Letting it turn into an oligarchic totalitarian state is honestly unacceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:34 am 
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George is at it again:

https://www.politico.eu/article/second- ... -to-start/

Quote:
George Soros: Campaign for second Brexit referendum about to start

The Hungarian-American billionaire backs the Best for Britain initiative.

By Magdaline Duncan 5/29/18, 4:00 PM CET Updated 5/29/18, 4:55 PM CET

The campaign for a second Brexit referendum will start “in the next few days,” according to George Soros.

Speaking at an event held by the European Council for Foreign Relations think tank in Paris on Tuesday, Soros described Brexit as an example of “territorial disintegration” and blamed it for impairing the workings of the EU, according to the Times.

“Most of the damage is felt right now when the European Union is in an existential crisis, but its attention is diverted to negotiating a separation agreement with Britain. That’s a lose-lose proposition, but it could be converted into a win-win situation,” Soros said.

The 87-year-old billionaire backs Best for Britain, an anti-Brexit group that’s calling for a second referendum. He has reportedly donated more than £700,000 to the campaign.

The Hungarian-American has long been vocal about the vote to leave the EU, and previously said he refuses to “butt out” of the debate because the decision to leave was a “tragic mistake.”


Another referendum “would be good for Britain but would also render Europe a great service by rescinding Brexit and not creating a hard-to-fill hole in the European budget. But the British public must express its support by a convincing margin in order to be taken seriously by Europe. That’s what the Best for Britain is aiming for by engaging the electorate. It will publish its manifesto in the next few days,” Soros said.

However, Soros still thinks the EU needs reform.

“The economic case for remaining a member of the EU is strong, but it will take time for it to sink in. During that time the EU needs to transform itself into an association that countries like Britain would want to join, in order to strengthen the political case,” he said.

Soros said that the entire divorce process would probably take around five years, which “is an eternity in politics, especially in revolutionary times like the present.”

Authors:
Magdaline Duncan





Did you hear that Banana? Soros says what Britain did is a "tragic mistake" but it is not too late for you to fix it.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:18 am 
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It's odd how the Remaniacs go batshit about Putin's ghosts in the machine, but Soros' millions, that's totally a-ok.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:28 am 
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If there was another referendum, the leave would win again. I don't see how the EU changed its attitude since 2016, allowing the British people to vote diferently this time. A second referendum would be a good thing, as it would be a definitive evidence that people don't want to be in the EU.

As we can see it in Italy, the general tendency in Europe is to reject the EU. Great Britain is not isolated there.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:39 am 
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LaPalice wrote:
If there was another referendum, the leave would win again. I don't see how the EU changed its attitude since 2016, allowing the British people to vote diferently this time. A second referendum would be a good thing, as it would be a definitive evidence that people don't want to be in the EU.

As we can see it in Italy, the general tendency in Europe is to reject the EU. Great Britain is not isolated there.


What about a third? And a fourth, and a fifth, and a sixth, referendum?

Slaves can keep testing their chains for the rest of their lives, but the laws of physics do not change. That iron manacle will still be as strong and unbendable on the 100th "try" as it was on the 1st.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:39 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
If there was another referendum, the leave would win again. I don't see how the EU changed its attitude since 2016, allowing the British people to vote diferently this time. A second referendum would be a good thing, as it would be a definitive evidence that people don't want to be in the EU.

As we can see it in Italy, the general tendency in Europe is to reject the EU. Great Britain is not isolated there.


What about a third? And a fourth, and a fifth, and a sixth, referendum?

Slaves can keep testing their chains for the rest of their lives, but the laws of physics do not change. That iron manacle will still be as strong and unbendable on the 100th "try" as it was on the 1st.

They will not organize a second referendum, they would be too afraid to lose it again. The eurocrats will find another way to counter the leave. Look at what they did with the French referendum of 2005: people voted no? So they made another treaty, the same more or less that was rejected, and that time, they did not ask the people their opinion, they ratified it at the parliament where almost 100% of the members disagree with what their voters think.


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