EU and Brexit

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Dinosaur
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2521 Post by Dinosaur » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:45 pm

I had to do a SEARCH on BBC to find this ... (BBC burying brexit reports?) ... but apparently it is "happening" ...
... MPs have given their final backing to the bill that will implement the UK government's Brexit deal.

The Commons voted 330 to 231 in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill and it will now pass to the House of Lords for further scrutiny next week.

If peers choose to amend it will it come back before MPs.

The bill covers "divorce" payments to the EU, citizens' rights, customs arrangements for Northern Ireland and the planned 11-month transition period.

The UK is due to leave the EU on 31 January.

The bill comfortably cleared its third reading in the House of Commons, as expected, with a majority of 99. All 330 votes in favour were Conservative.

It took just three days for the bill to pass the remaining stages in the Commons, after MPs gave their initial approval to the legislation before the Christmas recess ...
They read it three times ... so they ought to know what's in it by now !!! :D

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Re: EU and Brexit

#2522 Post by Anthropoid » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:20 pm

EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:31 am
LaPalice wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:02 am

You are very naive, Nero ;)

The EU ban chorlinated chickens because the European farmers and the agri-food industry don't use them, not because it desires to defend the European consumer. There is a product that the European consumers want to ban, glyphosate, a pesticide, but the EU commission still allows the farmers to use it, because they use it en masse.
I read that European farming uses way more pesticide than in the US, because the US makes more use of GMO crops and so doesn't need them.

Whichever one is 'better' is mainly just splitting hairs IMO. Bottom line is, if it comes from a western country - Australia, France, the US, or even Finland - I'm not going to be worried about whether it's safe to eat.
Yeah because "Genetically Modified Organisms" are EVIL!
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2523 Post by Mac » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:32 pm

Dinosaur wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:45 pm
I had to do a SEARCH on BBC to find this ... (BBC burying brexit reports?) ... but apparently it is "happening" ...
... MPs have given their final backing to the bill that will implement the UK government's Brexit deal.

The Commons voted 330 to 231 in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill and it will now pass to the House of Lords for further scrutiny next week.

If peers choose to amend it will it come back before MPs.

The bill covers "divorce" payments to the EU, citizens' rights, customs arrangements for Northern Ireland and the planned 11-month transition period.

The UK is due to leave the EU on 31 January.

The bill comfortably cleared its third reading in the House of Commons, as expected, with a majority of 99. All 330 votes in favour were Conservative.

It took just three days for the bill to pass the remaining stages in the Commons, after MPs gave their initial approval to the legislation before the Christmas recess ...
They read it three times ... so they ought to know what's in it by now !!! :D
Has to go through the House of Lords yet, if they make any changes to it then it will have to go back to the Commons. Not quite there yet.
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2524 Post by nero » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:41 pm

EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:54 am
New Zealand has a trade deal with China. New Zealand is the size of Wales (well, population wise, its actually huge). New Zealanders don't think they've been screwed, they are supportive. The deal is to the mutual benefit of China and New Zealand.

Trade deals are rarely unequal ones that stiff people, that sort of thing is what is imposed on the loser in a war not negotiated freely - in fact you'l'l have to point out to me one that is in the modern age.

You don't even need a trade deal, it's just an added benefit, the US is a huge importer and exporter and only has formal deals with a handful of countries. It doesn't have one with the EU or China.
Ah, you mean Britain does not need anyone to make good trade deals with the WTO rules. And Britain can make her own deals independently. Taking back control. ;)
EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:54 am
And EU food standards are not noticeably better than US ones. My US friends eat the chicken just fine. If anything US meat quality is better than EU meat quality. And your view of the EU is so fucking laughably panglossian I wonder if you're trolling or brainwashed. Irn Bru is illegal in the US because the colouring in it is banned as it was linked to causing ADHD in children. The EU allows it because Irn Bru is considered a cultural icon in Scotland. They still sell it in the US but with a different colouring agent.
Yes, there are standards on the both sides on the bond, sometimes contradicting standards. For example EU eggs can not be sold in the US and vice versa.



Wonder why they don't have egg cups in the US? Because Americans don’t eat soft-boiled eggs.

Why is that, how come? :roll:
CDC wrote:
Salmonella

CDC estimates Salmonella bacteria cause about 1.35 million infections, 26,500 hospitalizations, and 420 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for most of these illnesses.
The number of infections 1.35 million equals to 409 per 100,000 which is more than ten times more than in the UK. And when did people die in the UK because of Salmonella? And how many Salmonella hospitalizations there are yearly in the UK? About 5,180 or may be less, much less.

The US wants to to sell their food stuff to Britain in exchange that you can export the same you already export. A fair deal. :roll:

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EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:54 am
So much for 'caring for the consumer', wtf, you think these bureaucrats and commissioners give a f*** about you? They didn't a shit about Greece. They didn't give a shit about the economic consequences of the euro, quite explicitly in fact. The EU is a utopian project, peoples lives are just obstacles on the path to glory. Youth unemployment, meh. They are more concerned with breaking down national identities and replacing it with a European one, one of their stated aims.

I know you're a troll and all so I assume you're mostly just needling for responses, but ... are you REALLY this brainwashed and ignorant of how the world works?
This goes to the category EUParanoia. :lol:

"We won two world wars and Germany is now leading Europe". :roll:
Last edited by nero on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2525 Post by nero » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:51 pm

LaPalice wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:02 am
nero wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:42 am
.../...
Food safety is not bullshit. And the food safety policies in the US and EU are in binary opposition: the US system favours production, the EU system favours the consumer.

Caveat emptor.
You are very naive, Nero ;)

The EU ban chorlinated chickens because the European farmers and the agri-food industry don't use them, not because it desires to defend the European consumer. There is a product that the European consumers want to ban, glyphosate, a pesticide, but the EU commission still allows the farmers to use it, because they use it en masse.
Not naive, may there idealism, no naivety. I have no illusion about the EU, what it is now.

There many things to improve in the EU, that's right. And there many things to work together. Like the climate issues.

As for glyphosate, the classic.



finally I think it is naive to think that global problems can be solved by national effort, some countries doing the right thing, some doing nothing.

Ordnung muss sein.
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2526 Post by Dinosaur » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:14 pm

... Not quite there yet ...
Agree, but it is moving forward ... at a speed not seen since the 2016 referendum ... so really ... the unspoken fact ... is that this recent election WAS a referendum on brexit ... and the logjam in parlemint is finally over ...

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Re: EU and Brexit

#2527 Post by EUBanana » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Paranoia? I'm talking about historical and observable facts.

Did you see the EU nomenklatura stressing about youth unemployment?
Did you see the EU nomenklatura stressing about Greece?
Did you see the EU nomenklatura, for that matter, stressing about the wellbeing of anybody in Europe (well, who isn't a migrant)?

The only thing they seem to care about pushing is the EU itself. Which is not directly a benefit to anybody, except maybe themselves.
“The gap in EU finances arising from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal and from the financing needs of new priorities need to be clearly acknowledged.” - Mario Monti

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Re: EU and Brexit

#2528 Post by nero » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:59 pm

EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:30 pm
Paranoia? I'm talking about historical and observable facts.

Did you see the EU nomenklatura stressing about youth unemployment?
Did you see the EU nomenklatura stressing about Greece?
Did you see the EU nomenklatura, for that matter, stressing about the wellbeing of anybody in Europe (well, who isn't a migrant)?

The only thing they seem to care about pushing is the EU itself. Which is not directly a benefit to anybody, except maybe themselves.
About Greece I know that EU fucked up royally, thanks to Germany and France (the biggest creditors). That was a cluster fuck as the IMF has recently reported: IMF admits: we failed to realise the damage austerity would do to Greece, :twisted:

As for the other two I don't have any knowledge. Other than youth unemployment and well-being of anybody should be on the agenda of every national government. All power is not in Brussels like you think. ;)

Good luck and health in Boristan.
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2529 Post by chijohnaok » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:18 pm

nero wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm
chijohnaok wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:38 pm
Nero seems to thinks that Brits would be obligated to purchase and eat chlorinated chicken.
Even if the British government would allow its importation from the US (which it apparently already said it would not agree to), British consumers cannot be forced to consume it, that is unless they reside in Nero‘s imagination.
If Americans are forced to consume it, why not Brits? :)

But why speculate at all, just wait when the trade deals are negotiated.

As for the trade negotiations I have learned that boJo's strategy is compete the US and the EU against each other to get the best possible deal for the UK. But how realistic is that? :?

In those trade negotiations UK is a clear underdog.

We will see.

The National Chicken Council would estimate that chlorine is used in some rinses and sprays in only about 10% of processing plants in the U.S.

But since Nero‘s is a know it all when it comes to what goes on in the United States, and „ Americans are forced to consume it„(Chlorinated chicken) this means that Americans throw out the 90% of chicken that is NOT processed in plants that don’t use chlorine in rinses and sprays and ONLY consume chicken processed in the 10% of plants that DO use „ chlorine in rinses and sprays„. :roll:
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Re: EU and Brexit

#2530 Post by Anthropoid » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:45 pm

Uh, you guys do realize that water chlorination is one of the most widespread means of purifying municipal drinking waters, right?
Chlorinated chicken– or chlorine-washed chicken – simply means that chicken was rinsed with chlorinated water; chlorine is not present in the meat. Just as chlorine helps make drinking water safe, it can help remove potentially harmful bacteria from raw chicken.
Right here in Atlanta, all the tap water in the metro area is chlorinated. It was the same in Missouri pretty much everywhere I lived, it was the same in Montreal, and as far as I can tell, it is the predominant method for water purification at the municipal level all around the whole country. Technically, hundreds of millions of Americans (myself included) are getting the "Chlorinated" everytime they drink water, even if they are not getting the chicken.

Rinsing and washing a chicken during slaughter and butchery would seem to be pretty standard and that would seemingly be done with tap water most of the time. So it would seem to me that, unless these chicken processors described in that article are specifically using water that has been purified by some OTHER means besides chlorination, then the claim that "only 10% still use chlorinated rinse" is hard to just go along with without a bit of skepticism.

Of course, it may be that the concentration of chlorine that is standard in drinking water is less than that in this so-called "Chlorine rinse," but even so . . . if it is not at a concentration that will be toxic then who cares? By the time you eat the chicken its cooked and while my organic chemistry is pretty bare bones, I'm pretty confident that that chlorine will have been largely degraded in cooked chicken meat. Not to mention it was only ever on the outer surface of the meat, not infused into it.

I'll just go out on a limb here and say: I think I PREFER to have my chicken "rinsed" with clean water before I buy it, prepare it and cook it! Whether that clean water was made clean by chlorine, carbon filtering or some other method doesn't strike me as particularly significant :)

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