EU and Brexit

All things British. Kidney Pie, Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash

Moderator: chijohnaok

Forum rules
Harumpfh. English Gentlemen hardly need lectures on manners from some rabid colonial bumpkin
Message
Author
Mac
First Sergeant
Posts: 8381
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:16 am
Location: The Cockney Paradise

Re: EU and Brexit

#2511 Post by Mac » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:26 pm

No chlorinated chicken for us nero...
Chlorine-washed chicken and hormone-treated beef will be kept out of the UK under any trade deal with the US, the environment secretary has promised.

Theresa Villiers told the BBC the current European Union ban on the two foods will be carried over into UK legislation after Brexit.

Until now the UK has been wavering on the issue.

But she told BBC Countryfile: “There are legal barriers to the imports and those are going to stay in place.”

Ms Villiers has previously talked of imposing tariffs on any future imports of US chicken and beef. But she’s been under great pressure from Britain’s farmers.

In the exclusive interview with the Countryfile programme, she said: “We will defend our national interests and our values, including our high standards of animal welfare."

Chlorine-washed chicken and hormone-treated beef are illegal under EU law for different reasons.

The EU says feeding cows with growth-enhancing chemicals could potentially result in harm to beef-eating humans – a suggestion the US fervently rejects.

There is, on the other hand, no human health threat from using a bleach solution to kill salmonella on chickens. In fact, it’s rather effective.

But the EU says using chlorine allows American farmers to be careless with the welfare of the chickens.

The US regards the rules against these products as a European ruse to protect its own producers, and has stated that the trade of both meat products will be central to any UK-US trade deal after Brexit.

So Ms Villiers’ promise may please British consumers unhappy with the thought of chicken sprayed with bleach. But it may make things more difficult for Britain’s trade negotiators.

The environment secretary has made a strong promise that "legal barriers" to the import of chlorinated chicken and hormone-treated beef will "stay in place" and that the government will "hold the line" on this even if insisted upon by President Trump in trade talks. This makes a quick trade deal with the US rather tricky to envisage.

Leaked US-UK trade documents showed the US tried to establish how far the UK would, after Brexit, detach from the EU's hard line against US farm trade methods. US officials had made a presentation and repeatedly raised the "unscientific approach the EU maintains towards Pathogen Reduction Treatments [chlorinated chicken]". The US has been in a dispute with the EU over such methods since 1997.

If the environment secretary's rejection of such key US exports is echoed in the UK's negotiating position with the US, the US Congress might also object. When similar statements were made by Michael Gove, when he was former environment secretary, in 2017, it caused a rift in cabinet with Liam Fox, who was then trade secretary .

It is a clear example of the delicate balancing act and trade-offs involved in the UK's new post-Brexit trade freedom.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51054700
I could be the catalyst that sparks the revolution
I could be an inmate in a long-term institution
I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die
I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by
What a waste...

nero
Sergeant Major
Posts: 20508
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: EU and Brexit

#2512 Post by nero » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:33 pm

Mac wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:26 pm
No chlorinated chicken for us nero...
Chlorine-washed chicken and hormone-treated beef will be kept out of the UK under any trade deal with the US, the environment secretary has promised.

Theresa Villiers told the BBC the current European Union ban on the two foods will be carried over into UK legislation after Brexit.
...
It is a clear example of the delicate balancing act and trade-offs involved in the UK's new post-Brexit trade freedom.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51054700
I would not have much faith in such promises. If there is any hope to have a trade deal with the US.

I would collect new chlorinated chicken recipes, just to be prepared for the eventual. :lol:
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

User avatar
chijohnaok
Sergeant Major
Posts: 37429
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: West coast of the east coast
Contact:

Re: EU and Brexit

#2513 Post by chijohnaok » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:38 pm

Nero seems to thinks that Brits would be obligated to purchase and eat chlorinated chicken.
Even if the British government would allow its importation from the US (which it apparently already said it would not agree to), British consumers cannot be forced to consume it, that is unless they reside in Nero‘s imagination.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links

Mac
First Sergeant
Posts: 8381
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:16 am
Location: The Cockney Paradise

Re: EU and Brexit

#2514 Post by Mac » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:56 pm

Exactly. We have halhal meat and kosher food on sale here, no-one is forced to eat it. It might come as a shock to nero, but we do raise chickens here.

It's like the EU nobbers who said we were going to face a shortage of fish and chips if we went through with Brexit. Yeah, fuck off.
I could be the catalyst that sparks the revolution
I could be an inmate in a long-term institution
I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die
I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by
What a waste...

nero
Sergeant Major
Posts: 20508
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: EU and Brexit

#2515 Post by nero » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

chijohnaok wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:38 pm
Nero seems to thinks that Brits would be obligated to purchase and eat chlorinated chicken.
Even if the British government would allow its importation from the US (which it apparently already said it would not agree to), British consumers cannot be forced to consume it, that is unless they reside in Nero‘s imagination.
If Americans are forced to consume it, why not Brits? :)

But why speculate at all, just wait when the trade deals are negotiated.

As for the trade negotiations I have learned that boJo's strategy is compete the US and the EU against each other to get the best possible deal for the UK. But how realistic is that? :?

In those trade negotiations UK is a clear underdog.

We will see.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

EUBanana
Sergeant Major
Posts: 12264
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:44 am

Re: EU and Brexit

#2516 Post by EUBanana » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:02 am

Nero seems to think trade is a zero sum game again.

Explain how New Zealand and China have a trade deal that New Zealander’s are happy with then?

The whole chlorinated chicken thing is bullshit anyway. There’s nothing holy about EU food standards vis a vis American ones. You can buy food and drugs in Europe illegal in the US (Irn Bru being one of them) for safety reasons.
“The gap in EU finances arising from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal and from the financing needs of new priorities need to be clearly acknowledged.” - Mario Monti

nero
Sergeant Major
Posts: 20508
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: EU and Brexit

#2517 Post by nero » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:42 am

EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:02 am
Nero seems to think trade is a zero sum game again.
You have it wrong. Trade is not (usually) binary zero sum game. It is the guy with a funny hair, a right one who thinks so.
EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:02 am
Explain how New Zealand and China have a trade deal that New Zealander’s are happy with then?
You explain to me what you mean with New Zealand. Kiwis export what they have and import what they don't.
  • Exports - commodities: dairy products, meat and edible offal, logs and wood articles, fruit, crude oil, wine
  • Imports - commodities: petroleum and products, mechanical machinery, vehicles and parts, electrical machinery, textiles
This looks perfectly normal to me. So? :roll:
EUBanana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:02 am
The whole chlorinated chicken thing is bullshit anyway. There’s nothing holy about EU food standards vis a vis American ones. You can buy food and drugs in Europe illegal in the US (Irn Bru being one of them) for safety reasons.
Food safety is not bullshit. And the food safety policies in the US and EU are in binary opposition: the US system favours production, the EU system favours the consumer.

Caveat emptor.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

EUBanana
Sergeant Major
Posts: 12264
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:44 am

Re: EU and Brexit

#2518 Post by EUBanana » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:54 am

New Zealand has a trade deal with China. New Zealand is the size of Wales (well, population wise, its actually huge). New Zealanders don't think they've been screwed, they are supportive. The deal is to the mutual benefit of China and New Zealand.

Trade deals are rarely unequal ones that stiff people, that sort of thing is what is imposed on the loser in a war not negotiated freely - in fact you'l'l have to point out to me one that is in the modern age.

You don't even need a trade deal, it's just an added benefit, the US is a huge importer and exporter and only has formal deals with a handful of countries. It doesn't have one with the EU or China.

And EU food standards are not noticeably better than US ones. My US friends eat the chicken just fine. If anything US meat quality is better than EU meat quality. And your view of the EU is so fucking laughably panglossian I wonder if you're trolling or brainwashed. Irn Bru is illegal in the US because the colouring in it is banned as it was linked to causing ADHD in children. The EU allows it because Irn Bru is considered a cultural icon in Scotland. They still sell it in the US but with a different colouring agent.

So much for 'caring for the consumer', wtf, you think these bureaucrats and commissioners give a f*** about you? They didn't a shit about Greece. They didn't give a shit about the economic consequences of the euro, quite explicitly in fact. The EU is a utopian project, peoples lives are just obstacles on the path to glory. Youth unemployment, meh. They are more concerned with breaking down national identities and replacing it with a European one, one of their stated aims.

I know you're a troll and all so I assume you're mostly just needling for responses, but ... are you REALLY this brainwashed and ignorant of how the world works?
“The gap in EU finances arising from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal and from the financing needs of new priorities need to be clearly acknowledged.” - Mario Monti

User avatar
LaPalice
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 4470
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:42 am
Location: France

Re: EU and Brexit

#2519 Post by LaPalice » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:02 am

nero wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:42 am
.../...
Food safety is not bullshit. And the food safety policies in the US and EU are in binary opposition: the US system favours production, the EU system favours the consumer.

Caveat emptor.
You are very naive, Nero ;)

The EU ban chorlinated chickens because the European farmers and the agri-food industry don't use them, not because it desires to defend the European consumer. There is a product that the European consumers want to ban, glyphosate, a pesticide, but the EU commission still allows the farmers to use it, because they use it en masse.

EUBanana
Sergeant Major
Posts: 12264
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:44 am

Re: EU and Brexit

#2520 Post by EUBanana » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:31 am

LaPalice wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:02 am
nero wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:42 am
.../...
Food safety is not bullshit. And the food safety policies in the US and EU are in binary opposition: the US system favours production, the EU system favours the consumer.

Caveat emptor.
You are very naive, Nero ;)

The EU ban chorlinated chickens because the European farmers and the agri-food industry don't use them, not because it desires to defend the European consumer. There is a product that the European consumers want to ban, glyphosate, a pesticide, but the EU commission still allows the farmers to use it, because they use it en masse.
I read that European farming uses way more pesticide than in the US, because the US makes more use of GMO crops and so doesn't need them.

Whichever one is 'better' is mainly just splitting hairs IMO. Bottom line is, if it comes from a western country - Australia, France, the US, or even Finland - I'm not going to be worried about whether it's safe to eat.
“The gap in EU finances arising from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal and from the financing needs of new priorities need to be clearly acknowledged.” - Mario Monti

Post Reply