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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:28 am 
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nero wrote:
The divorce agreement was agreed with UK and EU. There is no ambiguity there. The problem is the red line May's government has set, no freedom of movement knocks the single market out, and being out of the customs area causes problems on the Irish border. These are choices UK has made, not the EU. There is no tactics on the EU side, it just not will change its rules because UK wants to leave.

The other thing is that the choices May has made are not so popular in the UK either. Brexit means brexit. :twisted:

Now I am thinking that a no-deal brexit is the right thing; not that it is a good thing, but gives a good lesson how stupidity[1] is rewarded. And it is interesting to follow the trade negotiations with US, how beneficial is the America First for the UK. :roll:

1. Cipolla, Carlo M. "The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity".


When you make negociations, you make concessions to the other side to obtain an agreement. But if you don't want an agreement, you make no concession, claiming as you do that you follow the rules. It is not as if the EU had not show its inflexibility before, with the Greeks, leading the latter to suffer as if they were in war. Now the EU do the same thing with the British, to show that you cannot leave the EU without a big pain.

A no deal is better than a bad deal for the British. There will be difficulties at the beginning, certainly, but in the long run, the things will be ok for GB.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:16 am 
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LaPalice wrote:
nero wrote:
The divorce agreement was agreed with UK and EU. There is no ambiguity there. The problem is the red line May's government has set, no freedom of movement knocks the single market out, and being out of the customs area causes problems on the Irish border. These are choices UK has made, not the EU. There is no tactics on the EU side, it just not will change its rules because UK wants to leave.

The other thing is that the choices May has made are not so popular in the UK either. Brexit means brexit. :twisted:

Now I am thinking that a no-deal brexit is the right thing; not that it is a good thing, but gives a good lesson how stupidity[1] is rewarded. And it is interesting to follow the trade negotiations with US, how beneficial is the America First for the UK. :roll:

1. Cipolla, Carlo M. "The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity".


When you make negociations, you make concessions to the other side to obtain an agreement. But if you don't want an agreement, you make no concession, claiming as you do that you follow the rules. It is not as if the EU had not show its inflexibility before, with the Greeks, leading the latter to suffer as if they were in war. Now the EU do the same thing with the British, to show that you cannot leave the EU without a big pain.

A no deal is better than a bad deal for the British. There will be difficulties at the beginning, certainly, but in the long run, the things will be ok for GB.

In what way has the EU been unfair towards the UK in your opinion?

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:46 am 
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nero wrote:

In what way has the EU been unfair towards the UK in your opinion?

the EU negociators, Barnier essentially, comes to the negociations with the fact that the deal offered by the EU was not negociable, that it was the only possible deal. Or it was that deal, or there was no deal, nothing asked by the British was accepted. And of course the EU deal was unaccetable for the British, as their vote at the parliament shows it.

By being intransigent, the EU negociators wanted that the Brexit be painful for the British, to show, again, to others that leaving EU is not possible.

I found an article showing the similarities of treatment by the EU with Greece and GB: Like Greece, Brexit negotiations leave the UK a rule taker from the EU


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:53 am 
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LaPalice wrote:
nero wrote:

In what way has the EU been unfair towards the UK in your opinion?

the EU negociators, Barnier essentially, comes to the negociations with the fact that the deal offered by the EU was not negociable, that it was the only possible deal. Or it was that deal, or there was no deal, nothing asked by the British was accepted. And of course the EU deal was unaccetable for the British, as their vote at the parliament shows it.

By being intransigent, the EU negociators wanted that the Brexit be painful for the British, to show, again, to others that leaving EU is not possible.

I found an article showing the similarities of treatment by the EU with Greece and GB: Like Greece, Brexit negotiations leave the UK a rule taker from the EU

You don't answer my question. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:32 am 
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nero wrote:
You don't answer my question. ;)

Yes, I answered it: in what the EU was unfair toward the UK in my opinion? By imposing a deal to the British without any possibility to really discuss it, a deal that the British are able to accept, and then provoking the mess that Great Britain is in now, to be sure that no one else wants to do the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:53 am 
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LaPalice wrote:
nero wrote:
You don't answer my question. ;)

Yes, I answered it: in what the EU was unfair toward the UK in my opinion? By imposing a deal to the British without any possibility to really discuss it, a deal that the British are able to accept, and then provoking the mess that Great Britain is in now, to be sure that no one else wants to do the same thing.

On what way?

The deal is what is possible to achieve the red line UK has drawn, no common customs are, no freedom of movement. These are the British decisions, not EU decisions.

Capiche?

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:13 am 
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So in other words, a nation may (under Article 50 I think) withdraw from the EU, but the EU makes it difficult, if not practically impossible, for any nation to do so.


Quote:

Welcome to the Hotel Eurofornia
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face.
They livin' it up at the Hotel Eurofornia
What a nice surprise (what a nice surprise), bring your alibis
Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, 'we are all just prisoners here, of our own device'
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:31 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
So in other words, a nation may (under Article 50 I think) withdraw from the EU, but the EU makes it difficult, if not practically impossible, for any nation to do so.


Quote:

Welcome to the Hotel Eurofornia
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face.
They livin' it up at the Hotel Eurofornia
What a nice surprise (what a nice surprise), bring your alibis
Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, 'we are all just prisoners here, of our own device'
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

When you leave a club, you don't have members benefits any more. So nasty and cruel. :roll:

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:15 pm 
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A tweet from Piers Morgan:
Quote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/ ... e.mu.nu%2F



Piers Morgan

@piersmorgan

I've given this a lot of thought & come to the conclusion that only one person can now sort out this ridiculous Brexit mess:
@realDonaldTrump
.
He'd take no sh*t from the EU, or Parliament, or anyone.
And he definitely wouldn't lose his voice.
Mr President, my country needs YOU.


3:18 AM · Mar 14, 2019


_________________
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:18 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
A tweet from Piers Morgan:
Quote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/ ... e.mu.nu%2F



Piers Morgan

@piersmorgan

I've given this a lot of thought & come to the conclusion that only one person can now sort out this ridiculous Brexit mess:
@realDonaldTrump
.
He'd take no sh*t from the EU, or Parliament, or anyone.
And he definitely wouldn't lose his voice.
Mr President, my country needs YOU.


3:18 AM · Mar 14, 2019


Does he mean Putin? :roll:

He will send more novichok to get rid of the worst remoaners. :roll:

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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