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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:53 am 
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/uks-johnson- ... 56441.html

Quote:
UK's Johnson warns of Brexit 'meltdown' in secret tape
AFP
Alice RITCHIE
,AFP•June 8, 2018

London (AFP) -
British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson risked a fresh Brexit row on Friday after being secretly recorded predicting a "meltdown" in the negotiations, accusing some in the government of blocking the process and implying US President Donald Trump might handle it better.

In the latest indiscreet remarks from Britain's free-wheeling top diplomat, he also revealed talks with the United States over North Korea and plans to counter Russian aggression, and mused about relations with China.

Prime Minister Theresa May's spokeswoman refused to comment on the remarks, revealed by BuzzFeed News, but insisted she still had confidence in her foreign minister.

Addressing Conservative activists this week, Johnson said the government was reaching a phase in negotiations "where we are much more combative with Brussels".

"You've got to face the fact there may now be a meltdown," he said, ahead of a key EU summit at the end of June.

He added, according to further quotes revealed in The Times: "Take the fight to the enemy -- absolutely right. We need to -- and we will."

Johnson revealed he was "increasingly admiring" of the US president, adding: "Imagine Trump doing Brexit.

"He'd go in bloody hard... There'd be all sorts of breakdowns, all sorts of chaos. Everyone would think he'd gone mad.

"But actually you might get somewhere. It's a very, very good thought."

At a time when eurosceptics are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with moves to stay closely aligned with Brussels, Johnson said there was a risk that Britain's withdrawal "will not be the one we want".

He accused the establishment -- in particular the Treasury, led by Finance Minister Philip Hammond -- of seeking to ensure that Brexit "does as little change as possible".

As a result, Britain risked remaining "locked in orbit around the EU, in the customs union, and to a large extent still in the single market".

In a veiled criticism of May's approach, Johnson said: "Unless you have the guts to go for the independent (trade) policy, you're never going to get the economic benefits of Brexit."

- China could 'stiff us' -

May's spokeswoman conceded there was "rigorous debate" about Brexit, adding: "The PM believes that her cabinet and her government are working hard to deliver on the will of the people."

However, she slapped down Johnson's suggestion that the Irish border issue, which has been holding up the negotiations, had been overstated.

"It's so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it's just beyond belief that we're allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way," Johnson said.

May's spokeswoman said avoiding checks between Northern Ireland and EU member Ireland "has been a priority for the PM from day one".

"The PM is committed to the union (of the United Kingdom) and the emergence of a hard (Irish) border would put that at risk," she said.

In Brussels, the EU's chief negotiator on Brexit, Michel Barnier, said Johnson's contributions were "always very stimulating".

After accusations from other British eurosceptics that the EU side was being too tough, the Frenchman said he would not be "intimidated by this form of blame game".

Away from domestic politics, Johnson suggested May would put forward a new plan at the G7 summit in Canada for a "rapid response unit" to deal with Russian aggression, including cyber-warfare.

He revealed that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had asked Britain to use its nuclear expertise in helping North Korea dismantle its arsenal.

On China, he said: "We need to engage with China diplomatically, treat China as our friend and our partner, but also recognise that they are our commercial rivals. And they will try to stiff us."

A source close to Johnson said he was speaking at a private dinner "so it is sad and very disappointing that it has been covertly recorded and distributed to the media".

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:07 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/uks-johnson-warns-brexit-meltdown-secret-tape-143856441.html

Quote:
UK's Johnson warns of Brexit 'meltdown' in secret tape
AFP
Alice RITCHIE
,AFP•June 8, 2018

London (AFP) -
British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson risked a fresh Brexit row on Friday after being secretly recorded predicting a "meltdown" in the negotiations, accusing some in the government of blocking the process and implying US President Donald Trump might handle it better.
...


:lol:

But let's see how Trumpolini handles 60+1 and the rocket boy first.

Let us laugh later. ;)

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:13 am 
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He ain’t wrong. Terrible Theresa makes that old mistake; the assumption that the EU are our allies and that they will negotiate in good faith. They aren’t, and they won’t.

There’s no point trying to butter them up by making concessions “because it’s the right thing to do”.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:42 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
He ain’t wrong. Terrible Theresa makes that old mistake; the assumption that the EU are our allies and that they will negotiate in good faith. They aren’t, and they won’t.

There’s no point trying to butter them up by making concessions “because it’s the right thing to do”.

Trumpolini is about undo whatever Obama did, if Obama was for EU, the Donald is against it. With Putin.

As for brexit, you ordered it, and you get what you ordered. ;)

One of most pro-brexit branches of British economy is the fishing industry, that exports 75% of its catch to EU. Go figure the rationale? :roll:

And just to entertain all of us, this little dated article:

Oliver Wheaton wrote:

Image

Brexit: No-deal would lead to immediate food and medicine shortages, government 'doomsday' study claims

'The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks,' a source said

Britain could be hit with food and medicine shortages within two weeks of leaving the European Union if a Brexit deal isn't reached, a new government study has claimed.

A 'doomsday' scenario for a no-deal Brexit has been drawn up which paints a terrifying picture of what Britain could be forced to endure when the country leaves the EU.

Senior civil servants have speculated on three different scenarios for possible Brexit outcomes – one mild, one severe and one they have called 'Armageddon'.

A source told The Sunday Times: "In the second worst scenario, not even the worst, the port of Dover will collapse on day one.

"The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks."

The source added that the RAF would have to be used to transport emergency medicine to the far corners of the UK and warned that the country would also quickly run out of petrol.

A spokesperson for David Davis' Brexit department said such discussions had taken place, but denied that the doomsday scenario would occur.

They said: "A significant amount of work and decision-making has gone into our no-deal plans, especially where it relates to ports, and we know that none of this would come to pass".

Concerns are still being raised at the possibility of a no-deal Brexit meaning the UK will trade on World Trade Organisation terms, with critics suggesting wealthy EU countries will not want to trade with Britain in this manner.

One senior official described the potential catastrophe of Britain being unable to trade with Europe in no uncertain terms.

"We are entirely dependent on Europe reciprocating our posture that we will do nothing to impede the flow of goods into the UK. If, for whatever reason, Europe decides to slow that supply down then we're screwed," the official said.

However home secretary Sajid Javid said he didn't recognise the "doomsday" scenarios.

Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, he said: "I have to say I don't recognise any bit of that at all and as Home Secretary. I am deeply involved in 'no deal preparations' as much as I am in getting a deal - I'm confident we will get a deal.

"From the work that I have seen and the analysis that has been done, those outcomes ... I don't think any of them would come to pass."

He added that the Government was making progress with Brexit plans, saying: "I'm confident that as we get to the June council meeting the Prime Minister will have a good set of proposals and our colleagues in Europe will respond positively."


Fortune favours the bold. ;)

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:49 am 
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" . . . will run out . . ." scare mongering I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:03 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
" . . . will run out . . ." scare mongering I guess.

Most likely so.

But just for fun, I'd like know more about the Armageddon scenario, would it be like the Plagues of Egypt. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:37 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
He ain’t wrong. Terrible Theresa makes that old mistake; the assumption that the EU are our allies and that they will negotiate in good faith. They aren’t, and they won’t.

There’s no point trying to butter them up by making concessions “because it’s the right thing to do”.

The eurocrats don't want that the things go well for the British with the Brexit, because that could show to the European people that you can live outside the EU and could give them bad ideas. They want that the Brexit serves as an example: you can't leave Europe, or we are going to make you pay. That is what they did with Greece when they voted for Siriza in 2015. The Greeks had to pay for their choice. It is the same thing for the British.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Quote:
Brexit: No-deal would lead to immediate food and medicine shortages, government 'doomsday' study claims

'The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks,' a source said


:o
Oh Noes!

Let's look at the prior predictions of doom and gloom:

Quote:
CLAIM: “A vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000, GDP would be 3.6% smaller, average real wages would be lower, inflation higher, sterling weaker, house prices would be hit and public borrowing would rise compared with a vote to remain.”

The Treasury predicted that GDP would contract by between -0.1 per cent and minus one per cent in quarter three in the event of a Brexit vote.


Quote:
CLAIM: “Economic uncertainty means businesses would reduce investment and cut jobs in the short term, which would mean households spending less too. A vote to Leave is a vote for recession. Do we really want that DIY recession?”



Quote:
CLAIM: “The likelihood is therefore that output and employment would be lower should the UK leave the EU than should it remain. In the short run, the uncertainty generated by navigating a complicated and untested exit process could be damaging for investment, consumption, and employment; the exchange rate could act as a buffer, but not by enough to offset the negative effects on demand and output.”



Quote:
CLAIMS: “We would expect material slowing in growth, a notable rise in inflation, a challenging trade-off. There's a range of possible scenarios around those directions, which could possibly include a technical recession - could possibly include that.”



Quote:
CLAIM: “The immediate consequence of a ‘leave’ vote would be greater uncertainty, and a significant impact on growth. Brexit would generate a large negative shock to the UK economy, which would spillover to other European countries. UK GDP growth would be reduced by 0.5 percentage point in both 2017 and 2018. By 2020, real GDP would be more than three per cent below the level it would otherwise have been in the absence of Brexit, equivalent to a cost of £2,200 per household.”



Yet none of those things came to pass.


So Mac and EUBanana will likely survive without being forced to become hoarding survivalists.

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- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:17 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
...
Yet none of those things came to pass.


So Mac and EUBanana will likely survive without being forced to become hoarding survivalists.




As for Mac and Banana, let them eat

Image

One year to Brexit: How well has the British economy really been performing? And what can we expect next?.

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Those who have been paying attention may recall the House of Lords throwing a spanner into the works a little while ago, well, the Commons now voted on those amendments.

Quote:
Amendment 110
Purpose: to give a parliamentary committee power to sift certain regulations introduced under the legislation to recommend whether they require further scrutiny peers.
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 324 votes to 302 (majority 22)
Rebels: Labour MPs Frank Field and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; no Conservative rebels

Amendment 128
Purpose: to create a more robust procedure for giving consent in respect of sifting secondary legislation
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 325 votes to 304 (majority 21)
Rebels: Labour MPs Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; no Conservative rebels

Amendment 37
Purpose: to remove 29th March 2019 from the face of the Bill as Exit Day and make it subject to being appointed by secondary legislation
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 326 votes to 301 (majority 25)
Rebels: Labour MPs Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, John Mann and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MP Ken Clarke voted against the Government

Amendment 39
Purpose: related to Amendment 37 above and the removal of 29th March 2019 from the face of the Bill as Exit Day
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 324 votes to 302 (majority 22)
Rebels: Labour MPs Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MP Ken Clarke voted against the Government

Amendment 125
Purpose: to only allow an Exit Day to be appointed after approval from both Houses of Parliament
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 328 votes to 297 (majority 31)
Rebels: Labour MPs Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, John Mann, Dennis Skinner and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MP Ken Clarke voted against the Government

Amendment 19
Purpose: to force the government to re-negotiate its withdrawal agreement with the EU in the event of Parliament rejecting a Brexit deal, effectively enabling Parliament to delay, frustrate and ultimately reverse Brexit in a constitutionally unprecedented move
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 324 votes to 298 (majority 26)
Rebels: Labour MPs Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, John Mann and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MPs Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry voted against the Government

Amendment 52
Purpose: to remove ministers’ ability to specify when individuals may bring challenges against the validity of retained EU law post-Brexit
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 326 votes to 301 (majority 25)
Rebels: Labour MPs Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; no Conservative rebels

Amendment 10
Purpose: to raise the bar for using so-called “Henry VIII powers” from whenever “the Minister considers appropriate” to when it “is necessary”
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 320 votes to 305 (majority 15)
Rebels: Labour MP Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MP Ken Clarke voted against the Government

Amendment 43
Purpose: also to raise the bar for using so-called “Henry VIII powers” from whenever “the Minister considers appropriate” to when it “is necessary”
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 322 votes to 306 (majority 16)
Rebels: Labour MPs Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MPs Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry voted against the Government

Amendment 45
Purpose: yet again to raise the bar for using so-called “Henry VIII powers” from whenever “the Minister considers appropriate” to when it “is necessary”
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 317 votes to 306 (majority 11)
Rebels: No labour rebels; Conservative MPs Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry voted against the Government

Amendment 20
Purpose: to only allow ministers to make regulations regarding the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement if Parliament has approved a mandate for negotiations about the UK’s future relationship with the EU
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 321 votes to 305 (majority 16)
Rebels: Labour MPs Frank Field and Graham Stringer voted with the Government; Conservative MPs Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry voted against the Government

Amendments 15 to 17, 26 to 31, 46, 48 to 50, 54 to 101, 108, 109, 111, 114, 120, 129, 135, 141, 149, 151, 153, 155, 162, 165, 169, and 173 to 196
Purpose: to give ministers in the Government at Westminster the power to place restrictions – temporarily – on the ability of the devolved administrations to legislate in certain policy areas where powers are returning from the EU
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 321 votes to 40 (majority 281)
Rebels: Labour MP Kate Hoey voted with the Government while her colleague Dennis Skinner voted against the Government (the official Labour line being to abstain)

WEDNESDAY 13TH JUNE

Labour Amendment to Amendment 51
Purpose: to make it a negotiating objective for the UK to have full access to the single market, with shared institutions and regulations, common standards and no new impediments to trade
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 322 votes to 240 (majority 82)
Rebels: None

Amendment 51
Purpose: to make it a negotiating objective for the UK to remain in the European Economic Area (EU Single Market)
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 327 votes to 126 (majority 201)
Rebels: 15 Labour MPs – Sir Kevin Barron, Ronnie Campbell, Rosie Cooper, Frank Field, Jim Fitzpatrick, Caroline Flint, Mike Hill, Kate Hoey, Kevan Jones, John Mann, Dennis Skinner, Laura Smith, Gareth Snell, John Spellar and Graham Stringer – defied the whip to abstain and voted with the Government. Tory MPs Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve and Anna Soubry voted against the Government. And the following 75 Labour MPs (inclusive of one teller) defied the whip to abstain and voted for the amendment: Rushanara Ali, Tonia Antoniazzi, Hilary Benn, Luciana Berger, Ben Bradshaw, Chris Bryant, Karen Buck, Richard Burden, Ruth Cadbury, Ann Coffey, Neil Coyle, Mary Creagh, Stella Creasy, Geraint Davies, Stephen Doughty, Rosie Duffiled, Maria Eagle, Julie Elliott, Dame Louise Ellman, Paul Farrelly, Mike Gapes, Roger Godsiff, Kate Green, John Grogan, Helen Hayes, Meg Hillier, Dame Margaret Hodge, George Howarth, Rupa Huq, Darren Jones, Helen Jones, Susan Elan Jones, Liz Kendall, Ged Killen, Stephen Kinnock, Peter Kyle, David Lammy, Chris Leslie, Seema Malhotra, Kerry McCarthy, Siobhain McDonagh, Pat McFadden, Conor McGinn, Alison McGovern, Catherine McKinnell, Anna McMorrin, Madeleine Moon, Ian Murray, Albert Owen, Jess Phillips, Bridget Phillipson, Ellie Reeves, Rachel Reeves, Emma Reynolds, Joan Ryan, Virendra Sharma, Barry Sheerman, Gavin Shukar, Tulip Siddiq, Andy Slaughter, Angela Smith, Owen Smith, Alex Sobel, Jo Stevens, Wes Streeting, Gareth Thomas, Stephen Timms, Anna Turley, Chuka Umunna, Catherine West, Matt Western, Martin Whitfield, Paul Williams, Phil Wilson and Daniel Zeichner. NB: Laura Smith resigned as a Shadow Cabinet Office Minister to defy the whip, while Tonia Antoniazzi, Rosie Duffield, Ged Killen, Anna McMorrin and Ellie Reeves resigned as PPSs in order to defy the whip.

Amendment 1
Purpose: to force the Government to negotiate a continued customs union with the EU
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 325 votes to 298 (majority 27)
Rebels: Labour MPs Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Graham Stringer voted with the Government. Tory MPs Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry voted against the Government.

Amendment 2
Purpose: also to force the Government to negotiate a continued customs union with the EU
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 326 votes to 296 (majority 30)
Rebels: Labour MPs Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, Dennis Skinner and Graham Stringer voted with the Government. Tory MPs Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry voted against the Government.

Amendment 5
Purpose: to preserve the EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights in UK law after Brexit
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 321 votes to 301 (majority 20)
Rebels: Tory MP Ken Clarke voted against the Government

Amendment 53
Purpose: to retain the right of action in domestic law post-Brexit if there is a failure to comply with the general principles of EU law
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 320 votes to 297 (majority 23)
Rebels:Tory MP Ken Clarke voted against the Government

Amendment 4
Purpose: to require the Government to submit to an enhanced scrutiny procedure if amending or repealing EU law relating to issues such as health and safety or equality entitlements.
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 318 votes to 301 (majority 17)
Rebels: Tory MPs Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve and Anna Soubry voted against the Government.

Amendment 3
Purpose: to oblige the government to maintain EU environmental principles and standards post-Brexit
Result: Rejected by the Commons by 320 votes to 296 (majority 24)
Rebels: None


The short version : all shot down in flames.

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