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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:10 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
nero wrote:
...
What question I was dodging? :roll:


That the government should be broadly reflective of the views of the plebs.

Demos = people, Kratos = rule

I know that you support direct, referendum democracy instead of the representative, parliamentary democracy. But even Switzerland has Bundesversammlung to make laws; hoi polloi can vote for simple yes/no question like are minarets allowed or can women vote. Though the turnout in the Swiss referendums tend to quite low ~25%.

I think that having a majority government should do the thing you ask. Of course in UK it is difficult see, when apparently nobody can support the government policies. :(

I don't see how direct democracy of ancient Athens could be applied in current world. Perhaps to radically reduce the number of people who can vote would help. :roll:

Perhaps you have better solutions? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:38 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/we-will-use-sanctions-to-punish-you-during-brexit-transition-says-brussels-vfwcfswdc

Quote:
We will use sanctions to punish you, says Brussels

EU demands unilateral powers during transition


Bruno Waterfield, Brussels | Oliver Wright | John Walsh
February 7 2018, 12:00pm,
The Times

.../...


Again, the EU shows its true face: an authoritarian organisation, not a democratic one. Its only goal is to punish those who differ with it. We saw that with Greece. In its mind, if the British people decided to leave, it is not because the EU is wrong, but because the British are wrong, and must pay for that. So we must not wait that the EU recognizes its error, and those who think that it can be reformed, the social-democrats mainly, are wrong, and are dangerous naive people.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:37 pm 
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nero wrote:
I know that you support direct, referendum democracy instead of the representative, parliamentary democracy. But even Switzerland has Bundesversammlung to make laws; hoi polloi can vote for simple yes/no question like are minarets allowed or can women vote. Though the turnout in the Swiss referendums tend to quite low ~25%.

I think that having a majority government should do the thing you ask. Of course in UK it is difficult see, when apparently nobody can support the government policies. :(

I don't see how direct democracy of ancient Athens could be applied in current world. Perhaps to radically reduce the number of people who can vote would help. :roll:

Perhaps you have better solutions? ;)


I think what we have now is pretty good - assuming it actually delivers and is not overridden by the oligarchy. Parliament has most of the decision making, members of the public can make their dissent known through various means. UKIP getting 15% of the vote and scaring the Tories into agreeing to one is one of those means. And on occasion, for major issues of constitutional significance, Parliament arranges a referendum.

Of course, that implies Parliament actually does what the plebs advise: constitutionally, Parliament remains supreme. I think they are pretty much bound to do so at this point, and would take them overruling us very dimly indeed. It does appear that in general, Parliament is wise enough as a collective body to realise this.

... In general.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:38 pm 
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LaPalice wrote:
Again, the EU shows its true face: an authoritarian organisation, not a democratic one. Its only goal is to punish those who differ with it. We saw that with Greece. In its mind, if the British people decided to leave, it is not because the EU is wrong, but because the British are wrong, and must pay for that. So we must not wait that the EU recognizes its error, and those who think that it can be reformed, the social-democrats mainly, are wrong, and are dangerous naive people.


As is so normal lately I can't disagree with anything LaPalice writes.

Maybe its all a dastardly plan to bring about European unity by presenting us all with a common European enemy to fight. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:02 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
Again, the EU shows its true face: an authoritarian organisation, not a democratic one. Its only goal is to punish those who differ with it. We saw that with Greece. In its mind, if the British people decided to leave, it is not because the EU is wrong, but because the British are wrong, and must pay for that. So we must not wait that the EU recognizes its error, and those who think that it can be reformed, the social-democrats mainly, are wrong, and are dangerous naive people.


As is so normal lately I can't disagree with anything LaPalice writes.

Maybe its all a dastardly plan to bring about European unity by presenting us all with a common European enemy to fight. :lol:

If there were a European referendum about EU, whatever the question, the anti-EU motion would win, that's sure. It seems that the eurocrats have the feeling to exist only if they act against the interests of the Europeans. I am sure that it is an enjoyment for them ;)


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:27 pm 
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LaPalice wrote:
If there were a European referendum about EU, whatever the question, the anti-EU motion would win, that's sure. It seems that the eurocrats have the feeling to exist only if they act against the interests of the Europeans. I am sure that it is an enjoyment for them ;)


All this crap about 'populism' lately does seem to be turning into 'we must do the exact opposite of what the people actually want because that makes us great statesmen'.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:48 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
If there were a European referendum about EU, whatever the question, the anti-EU motion would win, that's sure. It seems that the eurocrats have the feeling to exist only if they act against the interests of the Europeans. I am sure that it is an enjoyment for them ;)


All this crap about 'populism' lately does seem to be turning into 'we must do the exact opposite of what the people actually want because that makes us great statesmen'.

Yes, the decibel-democracy rulez; empty barrels make the most noise. :(

Image

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:29 pm 
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/02 ... op-brexit/

Quote:
‘Military Arm’ Party of Remain Movement Launched to Stop Brexit

by VICTORIA FRIEDMAN
19 Feb 2018

A leader of Renew Britain has described the new anti-Brexit party as the “military arm” of the Remain movement, which will “threaten” sitting MPs who back Brexit.

James Clarke, one of three “principals”, said plans to field candidates at the next general election would put pressure on sitting MPs to reconsider their position on Brexit.

“Some of the anti-Brexit pressure groups and movements are very, very much focused on asking people to pressure their local MP to have a second thought on Brexit,” Mr. Clarke said at the party’s launch on Monday morning.

“What we are is almost the more military arm of that movement, whereas we are actually standing candidates in seats to threaten those MPs that are not changing their minds, or are not standing up for the views of their constituents.”

The party is inspired by French president Emmanuel Macron’s globalist-minded La République En Marche and was set up with support and advice from several French elected representatives from LREM, as reported by Breitbart London earlier this month.

Its Twitter page boasts that joining Renew Britain will ensure that voters are “on the right side of history” and that the party will target young people who were not legally able to vote during the referendum because they were underage.

Co-founder Sandra Khadhouri, a former NATO and UN worker, claimed that her interest in working with Renew Britain stemmed from her feeling that post-referendum, the UK was a like war zone.

“As I finished working in Georgia for NATO last year I looked at which conflict zone to go to next and I decided it had to be Britain.”

Ms. Khadhouri also said that she wanted to reach out to Brexit voters and let them know that their voting to leave the European Union was “not [their] fault” because they “did not have enough information going forward to make a decision in the referendum”.

“And our message to them is it’s not your fault, there wasn’t enough information available about the impact of leaving or the alternative models,” she said.

Khadouri later told Adam Boulton’s All Out Politics on Sky News that she did not believe the vote to leave the EU was about the EU, claiming: “It was about inequality, unfairness, the rich/poor divide, the north/south divide, and anger at politicians, the government, [the-Prime Minister David] Cameron, and London.

“It wasn’t about Brussels.”

Launching the party in Westminster, London, Renew Britain’s Head of Strategy James Torrance appeared on the BBC’s Daily Politics, which featured a video showcasing Renew Britain candidates such as Yuki, a junior doctor from London; Oliver, a design consultant from London; Nicky, a teacher from London; and Mr. Torrance himself who is an accountant from London.

Daily Politics host Jo Coburn noted all candidates featured were from inside the London bubble, which voted overwhelmingly for Remain.

“We started in London,” Mr. Torrance said, and claimed it was a “national party” with over 200 candidates “from all over the UK”.

“Well, people will ask why you didn’t include, later on, people from around the UK,” Ms. Coburn responded.

The party has also launched a “Listen to Britain” tour of the country, despite the group’s founders not appearing to have listened to the UK when her citizens voted in the majority to leave the EU in the greatest political mandate in British history.



Quote:
Ms. Khadhouri also said that she wanted to reach out to Brexit voters and let them know that their voting to leave the European Union was “not [their] fault” because they “did not have enough information going forward to make a decision in the referendum”


:roll:

In other words, she is saying "it's not your fault that you were too stupid to know better"

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:22 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/02/19/military-arm-party-remain-movement-launched-stop-brexit/

Quote:
‘Military Arm’ Party of Remain Movement Launched to Stop Brexit

by VICTORIA FRIEDMAN
19 Feb 2018

A leader of Renew Britain has described the new anti-Brexit party as the “military arm” of the Remain movement, which will “threaten” sitting MPs who back Brexit.

James Clarke, one of three “principals”, said plans to field candidates at the next general election would put pressure on sitting MPs to reconsider their position on Brexit.

“Some of the anti-Brexit pressure groups and movements are very, very much focused on asking people to pressure their local MP to have a second thought on Brexit,” Mr. Clarke said at the party’s launch on Monday morning.

“What we are is almost the more military arm of that movement, whereas we are actually standing candidates in seats to threaten those MPs that are not changing their minds, or are not standing up for the views of their constituents.”

The party is inspired by French president Emmanuel Macron’s globalist-minded La République En Marche and was set up with support and advice from several French elected representatives from LREM, as reported by Breitbart London earlier this month.

Its Twitter page boasts that joining Renew Britain will ensure that voters are “on the right side of history” and that the party will target young people who were not legally able to vote during the referendum because they were underage.

Co-founder Sandra Khadhouri, a former NATO and UN worker, claimed that her interest in working with Renew Britain stemmed from her feeling that post-referendum, the UK was a like war zone.

“As I finished working in Georgia for NATO last year I looked at which conflict zone to go to next and I decided it had to be Britain.”

Ms. Khadhouri also said that she wanted to reach out to Brexit voters and let them know that their voting to leave the European Union was “not [their] fault” because they “did not have enough information going forward to make a decision in the referendum”.

“And our message to them is it’s not your fault, there wasn’t enough information available about the impact of leaving or the alternative models,” she said.

Khadouri later told Adam Boulton’s All Out Politics on Sky News that she did not believe the vote to leave the EU was about the EU, claiming: “It was about inequality, unfairness, the rich/poor divide, the north/south divide, and anger at politicians, the government, [the-Prime Minister David] Cameron, and London.

“It wasn’t about Brussels.”

Launching the party in Westminster, London, Renew Britain’s Head of Strategy James Torrance appeared on the BBC’s Daily Politics, which featured a video showcasing Renew Britain candidates such as Yuki, a junior doctor from London; Oliver, a design consultant from London; Nicky, a teacher from London; and Mr. Torrance himself who is an accountant from London.

Daily Politics host Jo Coburn noted all candidates featured were from inside the London bubble, which voted overwhelmingly for Remain.

“We started in London,” Mr. Torrance said, and claimed it was a “national party” with over 200 candidates “from all over the UK”.

“Well, people will ask why you didn’t include, later on, people from around the UK,” Ms. Coburn responded.

The party has also launched a “Listen to Britain” tour of the country, despite the group’s founders not appearing to have listened to the UK when her citizens voted in the majority to leave the EU in the greatest political mandate in British history.



Quote:
Ms. Khadhouri also said that she wanted to reach out to Brexit voters and let them know that their voting to leave the European Union was “not [their] fault” because they “did not have enough information going forward to make a decision in the referendum”


:roll:

In other words, she is saying "it's not your fault that you were too stupid to know better"

How much money does fartbart gets from Putin? :roll:

Perhaps Bannon can tell.

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:06 am 
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For want of a better place to put it, I'm putting it here.

The left being utterly routed in Italy, and open eurosceptics seeming likely to form a government there, seems to have totally passed the BBC by. BBC front page, nothing. BBC news page, nothing. BBC world page, nothing! BBC Europe page, ah there it is, tucked away well below the headline, where they are described as 'populists' with ill disguised sneering. Chairman Kim's latest blandishment and Lego having too many bricks are more important.

Talk about bias by omission.

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